Authenticity of Omega Geneve

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masher8

·Jun 29, 2022

Hello everyone,

First post here so apologies if I do something wrong!

I’m getting married in November and would like to buy a vintage dress watch to commemorate the special occasion that can be an heirloom in the future. I’ve seen a couple of vintage Omega’s that I like but there is so much variation between the models, I’m a little confused.

Initially I was looking at a C-Shape constellation with the calibre 564 and have since seen a lovely Geneve with the same movement. My understanding is the 564 is a chronometer rated movement so I would expect it to only be in watches with the chronometer stamp on the dial. Could it be the case that the movement has been retrofitted into the Geneve case? The seller (a reputable vintage seller in the UK) has said this is not a Frankenstein watch, but a rarer genuine model.

I have attached some photos of the watch (if I did it correctly) and hoping you could share some of your knowledge.

It’s worth noting the watch is currently on sale for £750.

Thanks in advance.

 

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tobyf27

·Jun 29, 2022

No expert here but the watch looks legit to me, seems a bit pricey however

 

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JimInOz

·Jun 29, 2022·Melbourne Australia

It looks to be a nice clean example, if a little bit worn from use.
It's an English cased example, the 9 carat case was made by David Shackmann and Sons so that's why its slightly unusual and won't show in theOmega vintage database.

Price is up to you, but in a few years the memories will be better than the regret of not buying something.

 

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masher8

·Jun 29, 2022

JimInOz

It looks to be a nice clean example, if a little bit worn from use.
It's an English cased example, the 9 carat case was made by David Shackmann and Sons so that's why its slightly unusual and won't show in theOmega vintage database.

Price is up to you, but in a few years the memories will be better than the regret of not buying something.

Interesting information about the case - thank you. Was this common around that time rather than having it all assembled in Geneva? I have tried to attach photos of the movement but they don't seem to be showing. Is there a maximum photo allowance of three?

 

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masher8

·Jun 29, 2022

JimInOz

It looks to be a nice clean example, if a little bit worn from use.
It's an English cased example, the 9 carat case was made by David Shackmann and Sons so that's why its slightly unusual and won't show in theOmega vintage database.

Price is up to you, but in a few years the memories will be better than the regret of not buying something.

Hopefully this now shows the movement photos.

 

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Peemacgee

·Jun 29, 2022·Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers

JimInOz

It looks to be a nice clean example, if a little bit worn from use.
It's an English cased example, the 9 carat case was made by David Shackmann and Sons so that's why its slightly unusual and won't show in theOmega vintage database.

Price is up to you, but in a few years the memories will be better than the regret of not buying something.

Is a cal 564 with a Geneve dial and local case a known thing? (even a 9-carat gold case)

 

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JimInOz

·Jun 29, 2022·Melbourne Australia

Peemacgee

Is a cal 564 with a Geneve dial and local case a known thing? (even a 9-carat gold case)

There were some unusual constructions from Omega UK at that time with cases from Dennison, DS&S et al.
Unfortunately their attributes are not documented as the Swiss equivalents are.
Who would go to the trouble of constructing a quality movement with a gold case?
Without "provenance", it is what it is.

 

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Spruce

·Jun 29, 2022·Sunburst dial fan

And you sometimes have to pay a premium for a nice watch. A plus is that you’re buying from a dealer so you have a comeback

 

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masher8

·Jun 29, 2022

The consensus seems to be that it seems genuine and not a concoction of parts from different watches. He is offering one months warranty and would do it for a bank transfer of £675, so it seems to be a relatively good deal.

 

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Spruce

·Jun 29, 2022·Sunburst dial fan

And return if you don’t like it?

But sounds good

 

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masher8

·Jun 29, 2022

Now that I'm home I have done a little more research into the markings on the case. It shows 165/65020 on the inside of the case back which brings up Seamaster De Ville watches when I put it into google. Is it possible the the case is from a De Ville, the movement from a Constellation Chronometer and then a Geneve dial fitted on top?

 

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Davidt

·Jun 29, 2022

I can’t see where it shows the inner case markings (there’s no caseback on these, it’s a unishell case), but yes 166.020 is for a Deville and not a Geneve

 

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masher8

·Jun 29, 2022

Davidt

I can’t see where it shows the inner case markings (there’s no caseback on these, it’s a unishell case), but yes 166.020 is for a Deville and not a Geneve

I have added another photo of the inside of the case. You said 166.020 but this is 165/652020, presume different models?

 

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Dan S

·Jun 29, 2022

Looks locally cased, in the UK I assume. In which case it will not have a reference number.

 

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Davidt

·Jun 29, 2022

I can’t make out anything from that picture.

If it’s a ref 166.020 or 165.020 (they’re the same models, 166 is simply the date version and 165 the no date version) that’s a Deville not a Geneve. If it is a local case then Dan’s right, reference numbers go out the window.

Is the caseback stamped DS&S or OWC?

 

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JimInOz

·Jun 29, 2022·Melbourne Australia

Davidt

Is the caseback stamped DS&S or OWC?

Both

JimInOz

...........
It's an English cased example, the 9 carat case was made by David Shackmann and Sons so that's why its slightly unusual and won't show in theOmega vintage database.
...............

 

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JimInOz

·Jun 29, 2022·Melbourne Australia

Davidt

I can’t make out anything from that picture.............

 

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Davidt

·Jun 30, 2022

Thanks Jim.

I’d still be wary of this unless I could find similar configurations as you have a movement, case style and dial that aren’t generally seen together. Being a locality produced case it could be original but I’d want to do more research to satisfy myself.

 

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masher8

·Jun 30, 2022

I can see the OWC stamp, but not the DS&S. Am I being blind?

What does OWC stand for?

If the case is made in the UK, therefore the reference number is irrelevant, why do they engrave one on there?

Thanks everyone for all your help.

 

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Peemacgee

·Jun 30, 2022·Purrrr-veyor of luxury cat box loungers

M masher8

I can see the OWC stamp, but not the DS&S. Am I being blind?

What does OWC stand for?

If the case is made in the UK, therefore the reference number is irrelevant, why do they engrave one on there?

Thanks everyone for all your help.

The large S to the right of the Omega triangle is for Shackman ( they also use DS&S, often on bracelets)
OWC is British agent for Omega Watch Company, set up but Dennison ( later taken over by Shackmann. )

British Locally made cases often used the addition of the number 5 if they closely resembled the original design.
French cases use the number 3.
So this watch reference is 165/1665020
So is a case resembling a 165.020 or 166.020