Hi All, With reference to the recent sale of the 2998-1 for 170K in upstate New York does the owner now have a dilema on their hands? It would appear there is a large inherent value in the watch because of the original state it was found in. So as he cleans or prepares the watch I would like to know whether forum members think the value would go down or shoot off into the stratosphere.
There is definitely money in wrist cheese, I recently looked at a disgusting Great White Seadweller, the watch sold at auction for big money and all the case back, endlink spaces and bracelet was black and gunked up, looked like it had a long life with a tractor mechanic.. Old cars as in barn finds are now worth more if left as is, with dust, rat feces and plants growing out of them!!
Well, there's a difference between a collector-owned watch and a watch that is new to the market, meaning it has never been sold before. Untouched watches go for higher values because the purchaser can have it taken care of by his own watchmaker, rather than worrying about the work that was done to it by a dealer's watchmaker (who are almost always working to a very tight budget). A watch worn by a collector will be serviced if he or she intends to continue wearing it, but generally a collector-worn watch that has been serviced by the collector's watchmaker (with receipts) will be sold for a higher value, since it's implicit that the collector will have more discretion about who is working on their watch.
I'm pretty sure 'watch cheese' is not desired by most collectors, other than the value deduced in it being an indication that it hasn't been spoiled by polishing or over-cleaning in a very long time, although I personally don't have much experience with 'barn finds'... Besides the grossness , you can't see the 'entire' watch if it's got crap imbedded in the crevices. The concern is an over-zealous watchmaker/cleaner removing any metal/wear/scratches of 'time' in the case.
This is indeed a dilemma. Does the "barn find" condition add any value ? I was in the same situation when I found this 2998 from the first owner. I was about to clean it... but I changed my mind. Even the dust on the bezel is still there.
I'm totally new to this vintage collecting thing. My impression is that experienced collectors bidding for these watches are bidding on the basis that they know how to "unlock" the full value of the watch. Meaning when they see this particular watch, they know that it does not have the over-serviced/polished or un-redeemable situation. Their eyes are "trained" enough to understand that what the watch will look like after it is cleaned. But I'm no expert so I'm curious too what the actual answer is.
Not directly related, but: On Antiques Roadshow a while back, the twin brother furniture appraisers (can't remember their names) were looking at an old, rare, impressive armoire. The couple who had brought it in were proud of the restoration they had done, and were giddy with anticipation. After a lengthy explanation of the piece, one of the twins said "If you hadn't refinished this, it would probably fetch over $200,000 at auction. In its present state, it might be worth $5,000." Oops........
iMO the "barn find" lingo has become cliche. As a reaction to dealers over prepped dials, the barn finds have become items of choice for many. But, a dirty watch does not a barn find make. Personally, the advantages of a dingy dusty cheesy watch for sale used to be that these would fly under the radar and could be had cheap. Those days are mostly over. For me, keep the watch original but clean off some of the grime and dirt. Ultimately a nice looking watch is one that looks nice. Am I being naive
It seems to me that a grungy watch that looks like it's been untouched for nearly 50 years just screams neglect. All watches need service and cleaning over the course of their life. I love old patina on dials, original hands and a little "mojo" from honest wear. But it warms my heart to see jewelers marks inside of a case back showing that the owner cared enough to have the watch serviced. Service dials and replacement hands aren't for me, but cleaning and maintenance can coexist with an original watch.
I'll speak from my own experiences finding watches with plenty of dirt / needed TLC...the high values you're seeing for these pieces are not because of the dirt and grime, but rather because of what the grime signals...an unmolested example of a coveted watch, with no preparation or tomfoolery. Collectors are willing to pay a premium initially because it means they're buying originality and unlocked potential (in this case, it was the perfect tropical dial and base 1000 bezel). But the next move almost immediately for a seasoned collector is to get it serviced by the best watchmaker in their respective rolodex. The watch's originality is still fully intact, regardless of a skillful servicing that subsequently follows and allows the watch to be actually worn by the new owner. Put more simply, if it's purchased by a reputable collector or dealer that in turn sells it on, the seller is still able to market the watch as a "one owner watch, 100% original and period correct." In a world with increasingly high levels of "prepared" watches for sale, as long as you trust the seller who describes its condition as such, it's value is likely increased due to the servicing and lack of dirt / grime.
What @ChicagoFrog said. The dirt and grime purely acts as a seal, indicating that no one has messed around with the watch in recent years (i.e. Before vintage watch collecting/prices took off). Once bought, why on earth would one not clean and service it (obviously with strict instructions for no polishing, replacement or cosmetic parts etc).
Many thanks for all the forum members responses. As a newcomer to vintage omegas I've gained some great insight. So would I be right in thinking if a similar quality watch came onto the market which was serviced and maintained it would exceed 170K or was this sale a one of event? I suppose only time will tell.
I can assure you that cleaning does not remove metal/wear/scratches, so a watchmaker being over-zealous is not really the concern here, but proper communication of what the client's wishes are. So in other words making it clear that no refinishing should be done. I'm guessing that the watchmaker who would service a watch like this would have the same policy I do (which is the complete opposite of the brands) so not refinishing is the default, and in order to get something refinished you would need to ask me specifically for that service. Cheers, Al
The dirt has no value - I base that on the fact that no one has asked me to filter the dirt removed from the ultrasonic tank after cleaning their watches and send it back to them. Well not yet anyway...
