Aristocracy of Taste v/s Democracy of Acquisitions (Reflections)

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Impressive that the kid in your school was able to beat teachers and get drafted to the NBA with no practice or training in the game of basketball, because that’s what being born with that ability would mean.

An insoluble argument, because, like Mozart, were there never a piano for him to sit at, we would never know. Further: if a baseball prodigy sees someone play the game, having never played, and steps up to hit homer after homer, do you call that practice and training?
 
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Again, I share some of your skepticism relating to how people can be sub-consciously influenced. But over long periods of time, with near-unanimous agreement from lay-people and experts alike, I would say that there's fairly convincing evidence that the artist or work in question is indeed special.

Cheers,

Tony

I am sure that there are artists that will be revered forever. Why is another question...is it because they are truly, objectively great? Or is it because people have been saying it so much and for so long, it just becomes the de facto opinion, never to be challenged or changed?

I don’t know the answer...
 
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Further: if a baseball prodigy sees someone play the game, having never played, and steps up to hit homer after homer, do you call that practice and training?

Is there an example you can provide?
 
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But again cultural influences can’t be ignored. What was considered an ideal female body type in the 50’s is not the ideal now.

Absolutely, and all you speedy dweebs best remember that back in the early to mid 80's bubble backs were selling for twice what people were getting for their Paul Newmans and other Daytonas. Could be next year those scoffed at 70's Geneve models will be the hot ticket and speedies will be two for $100 😁
 
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Could be next year those scoffed at 70's Geneve models will be the hot ticket

now you’re pushing the bounds of credibility too far........😒
 
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Absolutely, and all you speedy dweebs best remember that back in the early to mid 80's bubble backs were selling for twice what people were getting for their Paul Newmans and other Daytonas. Could be next year those scoffed at 70's Geneve models will be the hot ticket and speedies will be two for $100 😁

When all the Rolex fanboys go on about the infallibility of Rolex values going up forever, bubble backs are always my answer...😀
 
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In many cases because online "experts" declare them as "important", which brings us right back to the OP's quote by a hodinkee social influencer.

am reminded of one lesson in college years ago: when does art become art?

when somebody says so.
 
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banana-artwork-1.jpg
 
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In many cases because online "experts" declare them as "important", which brings us right back to the OP's quote by a hodinkee social influencer.
I agree with you on exposure and preference and this is what we see on Youtube with the influencer. But what is interesting here is the collective exposure from influencer. If one person is doing a nice Youtube video supporting Omega it will have a certain impact, now if we had 1000 influencer doing the same thing the impact will be much greater not just on the taste preference but also the value. For example Rolex is an example, if you look at the major watch influencer on Youtube, there are so many talking of the same thing i.e Rolex and this is bound to have a very powerful impact on people preference.
 
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Wanted to comment on these ideas...

Are you familiar with the “mere-exposure effect”? In simple terms, the more you are exposed to something, be it an object, music, etc., the more likely you are to prefer it. I can’t help but believe that this catch all term called “greatness” is in part a function of this, in particular when that work is exposed to a great many people over a very long period of time. There’s a reason the the first 4 notes of Beethoven’s 5th are considered the 4 most famous and recognized notes in history.

From my own personal perspective, and again to bring this back to watches, when I wasn’t yet a watchmaker and was an enthusiast, I would go into dealers and maybe glance at the Omega counter, at most. I had no interest in the brand at all, and the Speedmaster in particular was a puzzling watch for me. So many people seem to love this watch, but it didn’t do a thing for me.

Fast forward to when I joined this forum, owning zero Omegas at the time, and I looked at more photos, started to service more and more Speedmasters, and it is by far the most common model of watch from any brand I service.

I now own one and love it, along with 4 other Omegas. No other brand is represented so heavily in my group of watches. Does this mean the Speedmaster transcends above individual taste to be the great watch? No, it means that the mere-exposure effect has conditioned my brain to prefer this watch over others. By the way, I’m not saying this is the only reason I own one, because there are technical and practical reasons, but it has certainly influenced how much I like this particular watch.

So is the notion of greatness, genius, or whatever you want to call it some transformation of individual subjective opinions being coalesced into some greater magical independent quality? I personally have a hard time believing this idea...and it almost seems mystical in nature...

Cheers, Al
I have been considering the concept of "acquired taste" & wondering how to add to the conversation. I think you just said it better than I could.
 
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Taste does not equal: important, or valuable.
Once we substitute a different word, we are discussing different things.
 
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I am sure that there are artists that will be revered forever. Why is another question...is it because they are truly, objectively great? Or is it because people have been saying it so much and for so long, it just becomes the de facto opinion, never to be challenged or changed?

I don’t know the answer...

I don't know the answer, either. I keep trying to learn your opinion on the matter, but that appears likely to remain a mystery as well. Now we're back to positing that art is just an ongoing popularity contest. What's the de facto received opinion of Jeff Koons? Is anyone here afraid to offer an opinion on the balloon dog?

Maybe you're correct that ephemeral fashions, trends, and fads indicate that scare-quotes great art is just a bunch of people parroting one another's opinions. Maybe Rembrandt is actually is garbage, and eventually enough people will be brave enough to speak the truth about it. Somehow this has failed to happen for 400 years, though.
 
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I don't know the answer, either. I keep trying to learn your opinion on the matter, but that appears likely to remain a mystery as well.

My opinion is pretty obvious...you quoted it...I don’t know. If that is somehow not clear enough, let me know what it is you need in addition to this.

Maybe you're correct that ephemeral fashions, trends, and fads indicate that scare-quotes great art is just a bunch of people parroting one another's opinions. Maybe Rembrandt is actually is garbage, and eventually enough people will be brave enough to speak the truth about it. Somehow this has failed to happen for 400 years, though.

Not quite sure this is accurate representation of my posts or positions, but I suppose that’s the way it goes.

What I will say is it will take more than just people being brave enough, it will require the vested interests in maintaining the value these things, and there trading, to go away, which is unlikely.

As for the balloon dog, I’ll tell you that it is not to my tastes...😉
 
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^^^^ those who are born to recognize a truly great balloon will snap these up real quick like!

😀
 
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The important balloon
The emperors new clothes
The eternally tasteful

I quite like the Koons balloon dog, but as public decoration I wander past. I would never buy one for my house, nor read a 2 page essay on its meaning.
 
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I believe my good taste genes continue to maintain dominance over the mere-exposure effect of NATO straps 😁