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Cad290
路I'll concede that most 145.012s I see sell would fetch more as parts
Are DON bezels being overrated?
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watchknut
路I guess I should just part this guy out to fund an Ed
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oddboy
路You have to look at it holistically. A nice watch without a proper bezel is worth less by exactly the price of a proper bezel. Is a little aluminum ring with black paint worth $5K? Nope. Is a 2998-4 with a DNN worth the same as one with a DON? Nope. Cost averaging in, $5K is likely a good price over the long run - for a complete and correct watch.
Edited:
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watchyouwant
路depends how many you could hoard...... underrated ? or if you have none = overrated..... and Speedies have a long way to go in the international market. they are still affordable and in the case of the "rare Daytona Collector", they go for pocket money. kind regards. achim
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KJH666
路It is no different to people hunting for the fat font inserts for vintage Subs and SDs. People will pay big money for the correct insert that would have originally been on the watch when new.
My Ed White came with a later replacement insert that is in virtually mint condition. Some say it looks odd and is not in keeping with the watch. Luckily the dealer also included a 'distressed' don insert as part of the deal. The watch is currently with Simon Freese for a service, having the hands replaced and that tatty scruffy don insert put on.
If I didn't have one I wouldn't pay the prices being asked, I would have lived with replacement.
My Ed White came with a later replacement insert that is in virtually mint condition. Some say it looks odd and is not in keeping with the watch. Luckily the dealer also included a 'distressed' don insert as part of the deal. The watch is currently with Simon Freese for a service, having the hands replaced and that tatty scruffy don insert put on.
If I didn't have one I wouldn't pay the prices being asked, I would have lived with replacement.
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MikiJ
路More good dials then bezels out there in good condition. Simple supply and demand.
At some point though dial condition and patina is going to start mattering a lot more. As Spacefruit has noted watches that look better should go for more.
Right now perfect patina dials and hands are not taking much more money then ok dials with average hands.
Take for example my -76. Great dial and hands but still a solid good example. Many watches not as good looking are the same price.
I only ask because I've seen a few DON blue bezels. but not many, if any, DNN bezels.
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abrod520
路It is no different to people hunting for the fat font inserts for vintage Subs and SDs. People will pay big money for the correct insert that would have originally been on the watch when new.
My Ed White came with a later replacement insert that is in virtually mint condition. Some say it looks odd and is not in keeping with the watch. Luckily the dealer also included a 'distressed' don insert as part of the deal. The watch is currently with Simon Freese for a service, having the hands replaced and that tatty scruffy don insert put on.
If I didn't have one I wouldn't pay the prices being asked, I would have lived with replacement.
I think you'll find that the worn DON ends up looking better on your watch than a pristine new insert. It may not photograph terribly well, but it lends it a lot more character, and matches the dial better.
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KJH666
路I think you'll find that the worn DON ends up looking better on your watch than a pristine new insert. It may not photograph terribly well, but it lends it a lot more character, and matches the dial better.
Thanks. Is there such a thing as gentle restoration or is that a complete no no. Clearly avoiding any areas that contain printed detail, but tidying up the out edge areas. I don't think I would have it done, just wondering is it an option or not.
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abrod520
路Thanks. Is there such a thing as gentle restoration or is that a complete no no. Clearly avoiding any areas that contain printed detail, but tidying up the out edge areas. I don't think I would have it done, just wondering is it an option or not.
I've personally not heard of it being done, but I suppose it's possible if you find a skilled-enough shop. Maybe ask Simon if he can do anything with it while it's there, if anyone could do it - or point you in the right direction - it's him.
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Foo2rama
路路Nowhere near as grumpy as he used to be...Am I looking at a DNN naturally faded blue bezel? If so: Are these more unusual than DON naturally faded blue bezel? I only ask because I've seen a few DON blue bezels. but not many, if any, DNN bezels.
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abrod520
路^ +1
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Davidt
路Due to the anodised construction of the Speedmaster bezels, I'd be extremely surprised if there's any way of tidying them up apart from painting over chipped areas, which IMO looks terrible.
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KJH666
路Due to the anodised construction of the Speedmaster bezels, I'd be extremely surprised if there's any way of tidying them up apart from painting over chipped areas, which IMO looks terrible.
I think you are right. I did ask Simon if it was possible and whilst he would try and get the best match possible he did say that he thought any restoration would be visible, so I won't go there. I was just interested if anyone had tried it and what were the results like.
In addition, given the crazy prices being discussed in this thread it would be a very risky strategy.
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jimmyd13
路Allow me to use this thread as an excuse to post a photograph of last weekend's buy ...
Now, some might look at that and think that the dial's "tired". I'm not one of those. This is a desirable, vintage watch - whether you're a lover of Speedmasters or not. That dial is patinated. Simple as. To change it for something "better" would devalue the piece as a whole.
However, the bezel is simply wrong. Condition-wise, the bezel's great but it's from a much later reference (mid-late 90s). The wrong part devalues the piece as a whole. It's the same with the crown.
To my mind, this is why the market values a DON bezel over a vintage (I'm assuming NOS) dial. If you have a piece with age appropriate parts then the patination of each makes the whole more desirable (yes, it's a fine line and a subjective one between patination and damage). However, bezels were more likely to be damaged than dials. More than that, the DON is right for a range of references throughout the 60s. So, there is a higher demand to replace the bezel than there is to replace the dial.
To go to the example above, it's a lovely watch as it sits ... but it will be a better piece altogether with a correct crown and bezel. The dial should never be replaced - it can't be made better even with a mint dial.
Now, some might look at that and think that the dial's "tired". I'm not one of those. This is a desirable, vintage watch - whether you're a lover of Speedmasters or not. That dial is patinated. Simple as. To change it for something "better" would devalue the piece as a whole.
However, the bezel is simply wrong. Condition-wise, the bezel's great but it's from a much later reference (mid-late 90s). The wrong part devalues the piece as a whole. It's the same with the crown.
To my mind, this is why the market values a DON bezel over a vintage (I'm assuming NOS) dial. If you have a piece with age appropriate parts then the patination of each makes the whole more desirable (yes, it's a fine line and a subjective one between patination and damage). However, bezels were more likely to be damaged than dials. More than that, the DON is right for a range of references throughout the 60s. So, there is a higher demand to replace the bezel than there is to replace the dial.
To go to the example above, it's a lovely watch as it sits ... but it will be a better piece altogether with a correct crown and bezel. The dial should never be replaced - it can't be made better even with a mint dial.
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stefman
路I have a far from mint DON bezel and had thought of getting a mint one, but certainly not at the prices out there right now.
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cpl
路What about the period correct bracelet? DON and DNN are hardly noticeable unless you take a closer look. A vintage bracelet however is very noticeable and I think more aesthetically pleasing.
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abrod520
路What about the period correct bracelet? DON and DNN are hardly noticeable unless you take a closer look. A vintage bracelet however is very noticeable and I think more aesthetically pleasing.
If it's a true vintage DNN with a 1039, I'll agree 馃榾 Otherwise, a modern dot-under-70 bezel sticks out like a sore thumb!
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KJH666
路What about the period correct bracelet? DON and DNN are hardly noticeable unless you take a closer look. A vintage bracelet however is very noticeable and I think more aesthetically pleasing.
Gets back to money in the end. A guy is currently selling a 1964 bracelet that would suit my 1964 Ed White, but firstly I can't afford it at present and secondly it doesn't have the number 6 end links, so I would either have to buy a cheap reproduction set off e-bay or hunt for more expensive originals.
In addition, a 53 year old bracelet is not necessarily the best thing to use on a valuable watch and personally I prefer it on a black leather Omega strap. Each to their own and all that...
