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  1. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    I mean, a very good DON does what 3-5K? Whereas a 145.012 dial (depending on quality) does 2-2.5k and a 105.003 dial does 2,5--3,5k?

    That's all fine & dandy, but two things: DON's are being offered in abundance (just compare the amount of DONs compared to DNNs on offer) and these dials are rare like hen's tooth! And as a whole, dial conditions is (imho) a bigger factor in the quality of a watch than a bezel. To me: 1. Dial. 2. Case. 3. Bezel.

    All in all, My theorem: a DON is currently being overrated.

    Yes, no?
     
  2. Cad290 Jun 16, 2017

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    Don't buy any then
     
  3. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    Bit of a thorny reply, but ok. I don't necessarily buy them, but I still enjoy musing over their worth & value.
     
  4. Drawarms Jun 16, 2017

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    2-3k depending on condition makes sense on 105.012 and 105.003 - on 145.012 and 145.022-69 not really.

    People paying 4k for a mint is there decision to make an investment grade piece.

    Again, these watches were produced in much smaller batches compared to a rolex daytona, therefore the market is not that off.
     
  5. Igora Jun 16, 2017

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    yes..
    but that is market..
    DNN are not offered very often because they are not overrated.
    if buyers would pay lot of money for DNNs then probably the amount would be grater..
    I think DNNs will go also high in few years.
     
  6. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing the market price/value of a speedmaster vs a daytona, but am merely surprised by the value of a DON bezel within a speedmaster package.

    Supply & demand eh? I have a feeling I'd be able to get a fine DON at any time, I believe plenty are on offer, whereas dials (to me a bigger factor in a watch presence) are far less on offer and/or fetching less.

    Again, not a dig at the market (can't win an argument there), but more of a musing.
     
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  7. Drawarms Jun 16, 2017

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    even within the speedmaster the price makes sense. It all comes down to condition and people will always pay a premium for that.

    Will you be able to find one in a year from now? 3 years from now? quite possible, but the price of the part will always be relative to the price of the watch and if anything, at a higher premium for the part alone.
     
  8. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    No argument there.

    Nor an argument there.

    Still. Same goes for a dial, no?

    Maybe I'm expressing my thoughts poorly (English not being my 1st language), however, I have difficulty grasping why a superb bezel is seemingly fetching more than a superb dial or a superb case for that matter.
     
  9. ahsposo Most fun screen name at ΩF Jun 16, 2017

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    My transitional had a replacement bezel when my mom found it back in the mid-70's.

    I like it just fine the way it is, no way am I paying that amount of money to get a goddam dot moved 1/8 of a millimeter. Insanity.

    145.022 68_091816 3783.jpg
     
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  10. noiseboyuk Jun 16, 2017

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    I suspect that the bezel is more susceptible to damage being on the outside of the watch.
    Consequently, many DON bezels were damaged and replaced with service bezels.
    Speedy collectors are merely trying to bring their watches back to 'original' and so there is a large demand for a scarce item. Simple law of supply and demand.
     
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  11. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    Can see where you're coming from, @ahsposo ... but still I'm wondering about the value of a DON within a speedy package.

    I just fail to grasp, why a perfect DON trumps a perfect 105.003 or 105.012 (or even 145.012) dial or case.

    Not a dig at the market (can't win that argument), just unable to get my head around it.
     
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  12. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    Fair enough on the first part (bezels being knocked about), but I have a feeling there are plenty of shit dials out there, without the supply of proper replacements to bring them back at an improved 'original' spec.
     
  13. ahsposo Most fun screen name at ΩF Jun 16, 2017

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    I understand. All I'm saying is even when they were only $700 a short time ago I thought that was too much.

    Let's take my watch for example. As is I guess I could sell it for around $4000US. Add the DON maybe $4500. Tell me I'm wrong and I could get the money back plus some if I "corrected" the watch. I don't think so. Prima facie "over-rated".
     
  14. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Jun 16, 2017

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    More good dials then bezels out there in good condition. Simple supply and demand.

    At some point though dial condition and patina is going to start mattering a lot more. As Spacefruit has noted watches that look better should go for more.

    Right now perfect patina dials and hands are not taking much more money then ok dials with average hands.

    Take for example my -76. Great dial and hands but still a solid good example. Many watches not as good looking are the same price.

    IMG_3716.JPG
     
    Edited Jun 16, 2017
  15. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    Ok, maybe I didn't take that one into factor properly.
     
  16. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Jun 16, 2017

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    As a replacement part of a 145.022-69 a $5k bezel does not make a lot of sense - hell it is debatable if it makes sense on a 14.012 - note the recent auctions where two 145.012's have been sold off in parts.

    But put a top bezel on a 2998-3 to -62 and it changes a 18,000 watch into a much more expensive one - perhaps a lot more at Christies for example
     
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  17. Taddyangle Convicted Invicta Wearer Jun 16, 2017

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    no.

    upload_2017-6-16_15-59-6.png

    But I totally get where you are coming from.

    Are Speedmasters over rated?
     
  18. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    Yeah, perhaps my scope is obscured by my diddling around with the latest renditions of the pre-moons
     
  19. BartH Follows a pattern of overpaying Jun 16, 2017

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    BTW -- my thread is aimed neither at speedmasters nor at DONs. I own three speedmasters, fitted with good to splendid DONs (and would welcome a further tenfold increase), I just couldn't get my head wrapped around it.

    IMG_5925.JPG
     
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  20. Drawarms Jun 16, 2017

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    Dials are starting to get bid way over the initial estimates you gave in your first post. Again, it has to do with the attractiveness of the dial. Ed dials in great condition should be fetching 4-5k and 3k+ for a 145.012/105.012 dial is about right.