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Anyone a Tudor Big Rose expert?? Please help!

A
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I'm new to the Tudor world and truthfully don't know too much about them. I've been on the hunt for a Big Rose to add to my collection and they seem to be hard to come by. I found two and am wondering if anyone can provide some words of wisdom or insight on these?

Is there a way to tell if it they are legit or have been redialed or altered in any way? These are both 7964 but it looks like there's some differences between the writing and font style/size? Could this be because they are about 5 years apart in production? I've been trying to find some older posts with examples of the Big Rose to compare it to.

Both of these are being sold on Chrono:
https://www.chrono24.com/tudor/tudo...1966-great-condition-ref-7964--id17676936.htm
https://www.chrono24.com/tudor/tudo...1958-ref-7964-great-condition--id17676752.htm

Thank you in advance!!
Edited:
 
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asrnj77
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The top pic shows a T Swiss T but it has no lume. The bottom pic has some funny looking print, especially the Tudor portion. I don’t particularly like either but more pics including the caseback would help to determine if it’s a redial or outright fake.
 
Dan S
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As mentioned above, I have my suspicions about both dials.
 
A
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asrnj77 asrnj77
The top pic shows a T Swiss T but it has no lume. The bottom pic has some funny looking print, especially the Tudor portion. I don’t particularly like either but more pics including the caseback would help to determine if it’s a redial or outright fake.

The first two photos are of the first dial, and the third and fourth pictures are of the second dial.

Do you have any suggestions of places to look for one of these? I've been keeping my eye on the private sales on here but nothing has come up recently and am definitely not confident enough to even consider eBay.
 
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timjohn
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The minute hand is way too long on the first and, either the lumed hands or the no-lume dial isn't original on the second.
 
ConElPueblo
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Those dials looks as if it has been drawn with chalk over a blackboard and the movement on the second is heavily worn.

I know nothing about Tudors, but only general knowledge about what to look for on vintage watches makes me advise caution.
 
A
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timjohn timjohn
The minute hand is way too long on the first and, either the lumed hands or the no-lume dial isn't original on the second.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond! Greatly appreciated...

Any feedback on this guy?
 
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cristos71
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I know nothing really about these but do own a 7262 (of which I also know nothing about) that has a similar black dial. It's the deep glossiness that attracted me to it and when I look at the examples you are showing none of them have that.

So I'd say if a very even matt they are likely redials, 1 and 2 for sure, 3rd one I don't know, but the text doesn't look so good to me. Sometimes glossy black dials dull and fade through factors such as some kind of moisture ingress but it's usually much more uneven and there can clearly be seen that they had originally started out with a more lustrous finish.

209 1.jpg 209 2.jpg
 
A
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cristos71 cristos71
I know nothing really about these but do own a 7262 (of which I also know nothing about) that has a similar black dial. It's the deep glossiness that attracted me to it and when I look at the examples you are showing none of them have that.

So I'd say if a very even matt they are likely redials, 1 and 2 for sure, 3rd one I don't know, but the text doesn't look so good to me. Sometimes glossy black dials dull and fade through factors such as some kind of moisture ingress but it's usually much more uneven and there can clearly be seen that they had originally started out with a more lustrous finish.

209 1.jpg 209 2.jpg

Appreciate your feedback. Indeed you have a beautiful glossy example! This is surely what I will be searching for!
 
L
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asrnj77 asrnj77
The top pic shows a T Swiss T but it has no lume. The bottom pic has some funny looking print, especially the Tudor portion. I don’t particularly like either but more pics including the caseback would help to determine if it’s a redial or outright fake.

you don’t consider that the hands have lume?
 
vibe
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The dial doesn’t have lume either. Sometimes on Rolex dials marked T Swiss T are non lume.
 
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