An eBay delivery disaster

Greetings all,
Well, if the threat of blackouts, financial wipe-out, nuclear oblivion or the return of Boris Johnson aren't enough to get you down, have a read of this story and console yourself that haven't just had the nightmare i have.

In summary, here's what happened:
* i list a relatively high value item on eBay (£3.5k). The condition wasn't great, but it was honest, and the price reflected it.
* a buyer starts sniffing, asks plenty of fair questions, which i answer thoroughly and accurately, and they go on to purchase it, at a small discount.
* it goes to the authenticator. (neither buyer nor seller have a choice in this, the costs of which are borne by eBay)
* the authenticator then emails me to say he's effectively cancelled the sale, as he thought my listing description didn't match the condition, so he communicated this to the buyer (who knew all of this, as we'd discussed at length) and offered the chance of a refund, which they took. So the deal was off, the buyer was refunded and i would receive it back. Pretty annoying, particularly as i thought the photos very accurately potrayed the condition. But perhaps i didn't put it into words... fair enough.
* Then the real problem kicks in. He sends it back with UPS, but nothing arrives. I check the tracking ID and apparently it has been delivered to my address (a shared flat in a house, which has plenty of mail order packages arriving all the time, signed for on Weds 11:30 by a certain 'Macgill' - never heard of him/her.
* I call UPS to ask what happened, and apparently they have delivered to my address and someone signed for it - they don't have to be an addressee (unless a more specific delivery product is used, which wasn't). They nominally open an 'investigation', but the guy on the phone (in a distant call center) sounded vague and disinterested... so i don't hold out much hope.
* I then call eBay and explain what has happened, and after 10 minutes of the guy trying to tell me it's nothing to do with them and I should speak to UPS, i end up being transferred to an Authenticity Guarantee specialist, who assures me they will lodge a complaint with UPS and get back to me within 8 to 15 working days, albeit with no guarantees - that's a long time when you're down £3.5k.
So : at the moment, i'm down my item and the money, and the audit trail shows everything has happened correctly and any argument would simply be my word against theirs. I feel this is a decidedly sticky wicket.
Now, I have bought and sold many a pricey watch on eBay over the last 10yrs or so, and continually worried about something like this happening, where you fall through the cracks of the buyers/sellers guarantees... but everything has always worked out okay, in the end. But here, I am fearing the worst.

What do members think i should do? Or indeed, what on earth do they think actually happened here?

I checked with all the house neighbours - who sometimes sign for items arriving at the door for me (as i do them) - but i would just leave it in the common parts, like everyone else does. I don't take the item to my flat. So no luck there.
I checked the next door neighbours, but again, surely they'd have popped it round by now? Nothing.

So where is it?

Did the UPS guy make an error and take it to a similar-sounding address.... if so, why did the recipient sign for it? And why not bring it round to me, assuming it's not too far? Do UPS have a GPS location for each delivery? If not, why not? If so, is it really accurate to within a few meters? And if so, will they really admit to me if it appears there's been an error? I fear not.

Did the UPS guy steal it? Surely the personal risks of that are very high. Perhaps items sent from an eBay authenticator have tell-tale packaging, which suggests value and hence raises the theft risk? I can't actually recall.

Either way, this isn't looking good for me. Do other members have experience of this ?

The only argument i think i have is with eBay, to argue my item hasn't reached me. They'll say the tracking ID says it has been, so i will have to argue the contrary, some random has signed for it, and ask them (and likely argue hard) why their authenticating service only uses a budget delivery product ('Adult Signed For'), which appears not to guarantee delivery to the intended recipient like some others do (e.g. 'Adult Addresse Restricted').

Perhaps i should be arguing with UPS, who are more likely the one at error here, rather than eBay (notwithstanding eBay's cheapo delivery method choice). Although reading their small print, if someone at my address technically did sign for it, and nicked it (which feels unlikely, given my neighbourhood...although there are new tenants downstairs), then they technically (unless i'm misunderstanding) UPS did nothing wrong.

I am at a bit of a loss here, and would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions on what to do here.

Many thanks,
John.

Did eBay insure it when shipping back? If not, wtf? The responsibility is on them to make sure it gets back to you safely in that situation. They should pay you back and then get the money from the insurance. In an ideal world at least... sorry, that really sucks.

You may want to post the details about the watch so members can keep an eye out for it in case it is stolen and pops up somewhere else.

So sorry this happened to you. I unfortunately don’t have anything to add other than keep working with eBay. I’ve been through the 8-15 day loop and through my persistence, I got the resolution I needed. To the segment I quoted from you, no. The authenticators use eBay packaging that says “eBay” on it but nothing to hint there is an authenticated item/watch within.

This won’t help you now but might help others…a doorbell camera would be nice in this situation as you’d be able to either see who signed for it or else see that it was never delivered to your door and show that to UPS

Thanks vm for your thoughts and comments.


Well i thought that at first. But then i thought to myself, what is there actually to stop them doing this, when times are really tough? It's just trust, nothing else. Now, i have little doubt the vast majority of people are decent and honest, but it only takes one, particularly if they're desparate. And how would he lose his job? Would UPS really fire him if a parcel goes missing when delivered to the front door of a block of flats? I don't see that happening, but perhaps i'm wrong. So I actually see the incentive as high, with only honesty (and risk of a pattern emerging) stopping this happening more frequently.


Good Q. Will ask, but i don't think so.


My wife is 99% sure she was home, and she never heard anyone from UPS ring the door bell. Between us, we received around 6 other (relatively worthless) packages from other delivery firms that day. It's a little suspicious that the one that's worth £3.5k is the one that goes missing... but perhaps it isn't.


I can ask, but given they must deliver hundreds per day, i sincerely doubt they remember anything. The heavy front door has an automatic closer and cannot be open. A stranger wandering by? Doubt the delivery guy would be so dumb, but it's theoretically possible.


I asked UPS if it was insured, and after waiting about 2mins (which was odd) they told me it wasn't. Which is very strange... surely eBay insure stuff of this sort of value?!! However, even if it was....would insurance really pay out, as it says it was delivered? I suspect not. So i'm completely stuffed.
I can't even get onto AMEX to try and sort out for me as i haven't bought anything.... i've sold something.

Thanks. According to UPS, no. I didn't ask eBay, but should have. Their website is vague:

What will happen if my item is damaged or lost in transit when the authenticator posts it to the buyer?
In the unlikely event your item is lost or damaged, please notify eBay Customer Support.

The trouble is, given the tracking ID says it was successfully delivered, i suspect eBay's support stops at that point. As far as they're concerned, they've done all they need to, and it's my word against theirs.
Worse still, what is my legal recourse? I'm not sure i have a case, other than the fact that i didn't receive it. It's pretty horrifying.

Thank you for this, that's good to know. So did something similar happen with you? Was there a delivery firm involved, too? and eBay took care of it and made you good? That's a great outcome if so, i'm really pleased for you.

Thanks. I seem to recall some firms take a photo of you when they deliver something, which seems the obvious thing to do, to avoid disputes of this nature. But i suspect some people object to having a camera thrust in their face..? Seems to only happen with, say, 5% of deliveries, in my experience. And i don't think i've ever seen an option "request photographic evidence of recipient" - which sounds like a good layer of safety to have.

In my country the courier from UPS always call the number from the package before arrive. He always have to ask for an ID and copy the serial number of the ID. Anyway it's only the fault of eBay authenticator system so you should contact them. I never use the eBay authenticator system so just asking..are you sure that arrive to eBay authenticator and not a "middle" person and you were talking with someone else and you were scammed?

Don't think so. I called eBay and they recognized that the authenticator received it and sent it back. Not sure how that could be fiddled with.

UPS is the worst....parcels "fall off" their trucks and it's not their responsibility. I avoid UPS (pronounced oops) at all cost. I've been a buyer and seller on eBay for a few decades, it used to be a fair marketplace. But things have changed, they side with the buyer to a fault. Sellers have nearly nothing to stand on in disputes that are clearly nonsense generated by disreputable buyers. I wish you luck.