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Alternative To Omega Bullhead

  1. SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 18, 2013

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    ImageUploadedByTapatalk HD1358542189.610556.jpg
  2. ulackfocus Jan 18, 2013

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    Just so everyone is aware, these Chronomatics are micro rotor Buren calibers with chronograph modules riveted on top. They aren't particularly efficient and it's best to find a watchmaker who'd proficient with them. They are important pieces in the early automatic chronograph days.
     
  3. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Jan 18, 2013

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    The Buren caliber 11 was introduced in 1969 and was also used by Heuer, Bulova, Hamilton and a few more. It also spawned the caliber 12/14/15 variations.

    The Breitling Bullhead was also available as a hand with the Valjoux cal 7734 and 7740.

    IMG_2317.JPG IMG_2316.JPG
     
  4. SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 18, 2013

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    It would be nice if I could say I knew that, but I didn't. Thanks for the catch Dennis.
     
  5. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 18, 2013

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    THAT is the rotor? I seriously didn't expect that...
     
  6. shaun hk Fairy nuffer Jan 18, 2013

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  7. X350 XJR Vintage Omega Aficionado Jan 18, 2013

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    Yep, they don't call them micro-rotors for nothing, its only about 12-mmin diameter.
     
  8. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Jan 18, 2013

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    It certainly makes the El Primero look like a dramatically better engineered and more elegant solution, its like they were wondering how best to transmit energy from a rotor behind the chronograph eccentrics to a mainspring in front of them, then gave up and jammed that in there lol
     
  9. ulackfocus Jan 18, 2013

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    Because it IS better. The absolute purist will vote for the EP being the first true automatic chronograph because (a) it was introduced to the press first and (b) the winding system and chronograph were intergrated instead of piggy backed. It's a valid argument, against the Chronomatic's fans counter that theirs was first available to the public.
     
  10. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jan 18, 2013

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    Have no doubt about that. Primero was at least six years in the making, originally probably intended for Zenith's centennial in 1965, but delayed till 1969 for fettling - its a well thought out and developed design. And remember, Primero comes with running seconds and the cal 11s don't - which is not a trivial omission when your movement is not an efficient autowinder. At the time that Primero was adding day-month-moonphase complications to the unchanged origianl, the cal 11 was back in the shop being debugged to cal. 11i, then cal. 12, etc. The Primero remains unchanged today.
     
  11. Littleroger Jan 19, 2013

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    Here's a great article about the whole affair by Jeff Stein:

    http://www.onthedash.com/docs/Project99.html

    I vote for Cal 11, however ;)
     
  12. LouS Mrs Nataf's Other Son Staff Member Jan 19, 2013

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    Anyone would after that article. Jeff did a great job and he's always a good read, but that's entirely from the Cal. 11 perspective. He downplays the essentially makeshift nature of the cal 11 and its rush to production to the detriment of its technical performance.

    It's an argument that has played out many times online - the happy news is that we have both calibers to enjoy. Now at this point, someone brings up Seiko and slams us for being Helveti-centric bigots.
     
  13. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jan 19, 2013

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    I would agree that the Zenith/Movado design was technically the best and that is one of the reasons (along with the company secretly saving parts) why it is still around today, while the Seiko and Breitling/Heuer et al, movements were killed of during the quartz era of the 1970's.

    However, we have to remember that watches were made in countries other than Switzerland. In fact, the Seiko was the first automatic chronograph available to the general public, although not necessarily the Western general public.

    Here is an article that discusses all three of the contenders and why all were "first" in different ways:

    Gisbert L. Brunner, WatchTime Magazine - "The Great Race of '69" - December 2009 Issue, Page 113

    It is also the only one of the three auto chronos introduced in 1969 that employed a vertical clutch system. I've read that the Seiko is one of the only chronographs where the stopwatch mechanism should be left running full time. Supposed to be better for the health of the movement, but I can't remember why.

    There were other "bullhead" Chronomatic movements made, like this one from Bulova:

    [​IMG]

    I have one of these Chronomatics from a different US company -- Gruen:

    [​IMG]

    Very nice Breitling, don't think I've seen one like that before,
    gatorcpa
     
  14. Jeff Stein Jun 17, 2013

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    Great to look in on this "great debate" . . . how amazing that 44 years after the fact, this debate continues!!

    We all know which was most elegant / best engineering, and we all know which was first sold to the public (at least in one market, Japan), and we all know which was first offered in major international markets, but the debate continues!!

    The question, "Which was first?" probably cannot be answered (or perhaps there are three correct answers)!!
     
  15. CanberraOmega Rabbitohs and Whisky Supporter Jun 18, 2013

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    As a newbie, this has been v interesting. Could someone post pics of the EP movement and explain how it differs from the cal 11?
    Thanks
    Daniel
     
  16. ulackfocus Jun 18, 2013

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    Pics you'll have to wait for or ask the Google. The explanation is simple though. The El Primero was the first integrated chronograph meaning the regular timekeeping movement and the chronograph portion were all built together. The Caliber 11 was a Buren 3 hand movement (I think a caliber 1280 IIRC) with a Dubois-Dépraz chronograph module riveted to it.
     
  17. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Jun 18, 2013

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    You should read this - it explains how a vertical clutch works. The advice to run it all the time because it's better for movement is not true at all...

    http://omegaforums.net/threads/chronographs-vertical-and-horizontal-coupling.5539/

    Cheers, Al