Advice1962 Constellation full set especially good results

86208620 · Mon. 12:18pm

I wanted to share a family piece and get the community's thoughts and insight on it. This is a vintage Omega Constellation reference 168.005 with an automatic Calibre 561 movement.

What makes this one incredibly special is that it is a completely intact, "Triple Matching"set with especially good results and strong provenance:

The Case & Dial: Gold-capped "dog-leg" case with a beautiful, sharp Pie-Pan dial. The case back features an original presentation engraving from 1964 dedicated to my grandfather for 30 years service
The Bracelet: Original Omega 20-micron gold-plated "Beads of Rice" bracelet stamped 8220 on the inner clasp.
The Paperwork: It retains the original guarantee booklet sold on 11-4-64 by H.A. Humberstone Jewellers on Leeds Road in Nelson, Lancashire, made out to my grandfather (matching the case back engraving perfectly).
The Chronometer Certificate: Crucially, the original bulletin de marche paper certificate is included, stamped with the matching movement number 19692485(dating the production to roughly 1962). The certificate bears the prestigious red "Especially Good Results" designation.
Inside the box is an extra link too.

The movement has its beautiful copper-beryllium plating fully intact with no signs of rotor wear or moisture ingress.

I would love to hear thoughts from the Constellation experts here regarding the overall condition and historical context of the "Especially Good Results" paperwork. Any guidance on what a complete package like this commands in the current market would be hugely appreciated!

SOG53 · Mon. 3:21pm

Nice heirloom. Focused closeup photos of dial with hands moved off text would be helpful.
Also focused photos of case caseback and lugs would help. Like below photo to check lug caselines.
Btw dial is not pie pan it is domed dial.

MtV · Mon. 3:49pm

The above, pics of the lugs and the dial in indirect daylight. The latter detail is important.
A sharp pic of the case back, too, and one from the red box with the tray and the cloth.

We‘ll go from there 😀
I have a few things in mind that I’ll share once I can confirm with better pics.

Two things I can say already:

1. The bracelet isn’t correct. Weirdly, it’s a style that was used before that reference but a later incarnation that was produced after it was bought. Those 5-row BorS don’t quite match the sharp, angular lines of the dogleg lugs. 7-rows are the better fit.

2. It’s a very cool heirloom. 😀

86208620 · Mon. 3:51pm

That’s so helpful thank you. I will put more pictures on. Much appreciated.

SOG53
Nice heirloom. Focused closeup photos of dial with hands moved off text would be helpful.
Also focused photos of case caseback and lugs would help. Like below photo to check lug caselines.
Btw dial is not pie pan it is domed dial.

86208620 · Mon. 4:09pm

MtV
The above, pics of the lugs and the dial in indirect daylight. The latter detail is important.
A sharp pic of the case back, too, and one from the red box with the tray and the cloth.

We‘ll go from there 😀
I have a few things in mind that I’ll share once I can confirm with better pics.

Two things I can say already:

1. The bracelet isn’t correct. Weirdly, it’s a style that was used before that reference but a later incarnation that was produced after it was bought. Those 5-row BorS don’t quite match the sharp, angular lines of the dogleg lugs. 7-rows are the better fit.

2. It’s a very cool heirloom. 😀

Thanks I will put more on in due course, once we have daylight 😀 I appreciate any advice. Really interesting to pin it all down. NB. The box is empty other than papers and watch.

MtV · Mon. 4:49pm

86208620
Thanks I will put more on in due course, once we have daylight 😀 I appreciate any advice. Really interesting to pin it all down. NB. The box is empty other than papers and watch.

Sure! And don’t get me wrong, I‘m not trying to disparage what you got. But you asked for an assessment. Here’s another fraction of it: The white box you have is only an outter box and it doesn’t belong to a Constellation. For a 1962 cal. 561 Connie, you’d be looking at something like this:

(top to bottom: Notice the full model name etc. on the correct outter box; the red „actual“ box; the tray; the empty box; the cloth)

For a full set you’d also need an original receipt.

Let‘s call it a Constellation with some papers 😀

Dan S · Mon. 5:04pm

Great to have a family piece like that with such a nice engraving.

86208620 · Mon. 5:16pm

MtV
Sure! And don’t get me wrong, I‘m not trying to disparage what you got. But you asked for an assessment. Here’s another fraction of it: The white box you have is only an outter box and it doesn’t belong to a Constellation. For a 1962 cal. 561 Connie, you’d be looking at something like this:

(top to bottom: Notice the full model name etc. on the correct outter box; the red „actual“ box; the tray; the empty box; the cloth)

For a full set you’d also need an original receipt.

Let‘s call it a Constellation with some papers 😀

Honestly this is exactly why I came here and am pleased to have got the advice to date. More to come, pulling full new picture set together first. Thank you.

Peemacgee · Tues. 2:01am

Welcome @86208620
What a great heirloom you have there.
Looking forward to some in-focus pics.

As you might be beginning to be able to tell, AI is not always your friend when describing vintage watches.
It gets some things right but is also very wrong on other points - like the type of dial.

The ‘especially good results’ is a designation that Omega insisted on before it marked its movements chronometer rated.
Unlike some others (Rolex for example) who had chronometer-marked watches with only ‘good’ test results.

Your watch is a very early 168.005 (after the change of reference from 14902) in a CB case and shows that dating a watch by serial versus a sale date is a moveable feast.

A 19,69m serial would place movement manufacture towards the end of 1962 which could easily have been a 14902 but your watch has the full upper text of a 168.005 and was sold in April ‘64.

If you haven’t already found this website a deep dive into Desmond’s blog will be interesting to you.

https://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/?m=0

Peemacgee · Tues. 2:21am

I am going to diverge from our esteemed member @MtV slightly by suggesting that, by 1964, the box for a 168.005 Constellation would likely be the more modern version like this:

MtV · Tues. 2:44am

Peemacgee
I am going to diverge from our esteemed member @MtV slightly by suggesting that, by 1964, the box for a 168.005 Constellation would likely be the more modern version like this:

Thank you for the kind words - I‘m happy to admit I don’t know the exact point in time at which Omega switched to the new set of boxes, if there was one, I thought it was ca. 1963.
So, I completely agree it should be the more „modern“ box for a 1964 watch.
Since the OPs was produced in 62, though, I figured it might still have been the old set, but I’m happy to be corrected!
You know those better than I do @Peemacgee

86208620 · Tues. 11:05am

Peemacgee
Welcome @86208620
What a great heirloom you have there.
Looking forward to some in-focus pics.

As you might be beginning to be able to tell, AI is not always your friend when describing vintage watches.
It gets some things right but is also very wrong on other points - like the type of dial.

The ‘especially good results’ is a designation that Omega insisted on before it marked its movements chronometer rated.
Unlike some others (Rolex for example) who had chronometer-marked watches with only ‘good’ test results.

Your watch is a very early 168.005 (after the change of reference from 14902) in a CB case and shows that dating a watch by serial versus a sale date is a moveable feast.

A 19,69m serial would place movement manufacture towards the end of 1962 which could easily have been a 14902 but your watch has the full upper text of a 168.005 and was sold in April ‘64.

If you haven’t already found this website a deep dive into Desmond’s blog will be interesting to you.

https://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/?m=0

Thank you and for the link which is fascinating

86208620 · Tues. 11:18am

Firstly I am very grateful for all the insights so far. It’s wonderful to really understand.

So more pictures are attached and all further comment gratefully received.

Through prompts to date I am understanding :

The box doesn’t even come with this watch (pics attached) and I will only ever describe this as watch and papers from now on.

That it’s a domed dial not pie pan.

That especially good results is the standard and such any rarity comes from the complete package with papers rather than that standard per se.

And the bracelet isn’t really the one that best fits or indeed was intended. I am assuming that when this was presented to my grandfather it may have come with a leather strap. He returned to the jewellers at a later point and they supplied the bracelet.

Anyway that’s for starters, pics here, I am sure there will be more to say and all clarity and advice welcomed thank you.

SOG53 · Tues. 11:34am

Dial looks original text and fonts look good. No lume version. Vertical linen look less common. Nice onyx inserts on hour indices can see the “roofline” of inserts clearly.
Hands look original.
Few scratches on crystal can be polished out easily with Polywatch.
Case good sharp edges on bezel, lugs have some wear at tips but bevels look reasonable for gold capped. Caseback medallion has some wear but ok.
To me this is a well worn and well loved watch, a wonderful heirloom.
Replacing bracelet with a nice brown leather strap will look great. Gold plated original buckles are findable.
Edit: crown looks like worn original. And I can see Omega logo in center so Crystal looks original

86208620 · Tues. 1:14pm

SOG53
Dial looks original text and fonts look good. No lume version. Vertical linen look less common. Nice onyx inserts on hour indices can see the “roofline” of inserts clearly.
Hands look original.
Few scratches on crystal can be polished out easily with Polywatch.
Case good sharp edges on bezel, lugs have some wear at tips but bevels look reasonable for gold capped. Caseback medallion has some wear but ok.
To me this is a well worn and well loved watch, a wonderful heirloom.
Replacing bracelet with a nice brown leather strap will look great. Gold plated original buckles are findable.
Edit: crown looks like worn original. And I can see Omega logo in center so Crystal looks original

86208620 · Tues. 1:17pm

SOG53
Dial looks original text and fonts look good. No lume version. Vertical linen look less common. Nice onyx inserts on hour indices can see the “roofline” of inserts clearly.
Hands look original.
Few scratches on crystal can be polished out easily with Polywatch.
Case good sharp edges on bezel, lugs have some wear at tips but bevels look reasonable for gold capped. Caseback medallion has some wear but ok.
To me this is a well worn and well loved watch, a wonderful heirloom.
Replacing bracelet with a nice brown leather strap will look great. Gold plated original buckles are findable.
Edit: crown looks like worn original. And I can see Omega logo in center so Crystal looks original

Yes I think leather strap is the way forward. Very grateful for comments and insight

MtV · Tues. 2:40pm

SOG53
Dial looks original text and fonts look good. No lume version. Vertical linen look less common. Nice onyx inserts on hour indices can see the “roofline” of inserts clearly.
Hands look original.
Few scratches on crystal can be polished out easily with Polywatch.
Case good sharp edges on bezel, lugs have some wear at tips but bevels look reasonable for gold capped. Caseback medallion has some wear but ok.
To me this is a well worn and well loved watch, a wonderful heirloom.
Replacing bracelet with a nice brown leather strap will look great. Gold plated original buckles are findable.
Edit: crown looks like worn original. And I can see Omega logo in center so Crystal looks original

I second that, not much to add.

You asked for a valuation, so here’s a few words on that.
Firstly, the papers. You’ll find different opinions on that, some people might be willing to pay a bit more, some people (like me) see a story that’s amazing when it’s your relative, but when it’s not what you end up with is some dusty papers in a drawer and a case back that’s not quite as elegant as a clean one. I‘d say that‘ll roughly even out and you‘ll be looking at about the same value as a „regular“ example would carry. Anyways, we’re talking maybe +/-100$ here.

Doglegs have gone up significantly in value, but it very much depends on the configuration.
You‘ll see non-precious metal examples sell for 3k$. But those will be steel rather than gold-cap, pie pan rather than dome dial, date-less rather than a date version. I‘m just saying this to highlight that those shouldn’t be confused when checking for values online.

My guess would be ~1.4-1.6k$ as-is for the watch head only.
The bracelet is another 200-250$. I’d sell it separately.

Indeed, personally, I’d only sell the bracelet (if possible), buy a nice brown leather strap, wear the hell out of it and display the Omega papers somewhere in a frame in my living room as a conversation starter.

86208620 · Tues. 5:04pm

MtV
I second that, not much to add.

You asked for a valuation, so here’s a few words on that.
Firstly, the papers. You’ll find different opinions on that, some people might be willing to pay a bit more, some people (like me) see a story that’s amazing when it’s your relative, but when it’s not what you end up with is some dusty papers in a drawer and a case back that’s not quite as elegant as a clean one. I‘d say that‘ll roughly even out and you‘ll be looking at about the same value as a „regular“ example would carry. Anyways, we’re talking maybe +/-100$ here.

Doglegs have gone up significantly in value, but it very much depends on the configuration.
You‘ll see non-precious metal examples sell for 3k$. But those will be steel rather than gold-cap, pie pan rather than dome dial, date-less rather than a date version. I‘m just saying this to highlight that those shouldn’t be confused when checking for values online.

My guess would be ~1.4-1.6k$ as-is for the watch head only.
The bracelet is another 200-250$. I’d sell it separately.

Indeed, personally, I’d only sell the bracelet (if possible), buy a nice brown leather strap, wear the hell out of it and display the Omega papers somewhere in a frame in my living room as a conversation starter.

Cheers. I came to understand what I have and the story and in 24 hours I’ve got that from a few members of the community that clearly know their stuff and are willing to share it. How good is that. Today I am less attached to a box and a bracelet that don’t really fit, but more attached to a watch head and papers that tell the story of my grandfather. I also feel like I now have permission change the strap and make it work for me. Thanks all

Davidt · Tues. 5:29pm

The only thing I’d add is that while the bracelet isn’t typically what you’d see on a dogleg Connie, these were often added at the point of sale and although unusual it’s just about possible to me that the bracelet is original.

MtV · Tues. 9:13pm

Davidt
The only thing I’d add is that while the bracelet isn’t typically what you’d see on a dogleg Connie, these were often added at the point of sale and although unusual it’s just about possible to me that the bracelet is original.

Even though it’s an 8220, not a 1502? I thought they were produced later.

Advice1962 Constellation full set especially good results

86208620

SOG53

MtV

86208620

86208620

MtV

Dan S

86208620

Peemacgee

Peemacgee

MtV

86208620

86208620

SOG53

86208620

86208620

MtV

86208620

Davidt

MtV

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