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  1. nicks

    nicks Jan 11, 2020

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    image.jpeg Hi, all.

    I'm considering buying this Seamaster. Caseback reference is 2577-12 SC, and 13M serial number dates it to 1952/53. It's a cal 354 bumper, showing lots of tool marks but recently serviced.

    I've looked at many (many!) images of various 2577 variants. Lots of waffle dials, some crosshairs, plenty of repainted examples. So many, in fact, that I'm having a hard time sorting out whether this dial is original or not. So, hoping for some advice here.

    I can see that the seconds hand Is wrong; maybe all the hands?

    Thanks in advance for your comments.
     
  2. Dan S

    Dan S Jan 11, 2020

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    My feeling is that it is a re-dial and an incorrect minute hand. Seconds hand is broken, not sure about the hour hand ... it could be correct. Better photos would be needed, but I'm also seeing signs of over-polishing.
     
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  3. seekingseaquest

    seekingseaquest Jan 11, 2020

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  4. nicks

    nicks Jan 12, 2020

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    Super helpful, thanks guys. The pictures of similar waffle dials were great!

    The crosshairs are bugging me just enough, and I'm trying not to be seduced by the (big) bump in the bumper--love that. But for now I will pass it up.

    Many thanks again.
     
  5. kingsrider

    kingsrider Thank you Sir! May I have another? Jan 12, 2020

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    If it is a redial, it's a pretty good one. Is the vertical cross-hair centered in the logo?. It seems I always have to ask, Price?.
     
  6. Rochete

    Rochete Jan 12, 2020

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    Minute markers around 1 and 2 are a bit suspicious.
     
  7. Maskelyne

    Maskelyne Jan 13, 2020

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    It is genuine in my opinion. The second hand is broken and the minute hand is replaced. Here is a ref 2767-5 with crosshair.


    Omega-Seamaster,-ref-2767-5,-waffle.jpg
     
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  8. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Jan 13, 2020

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    Pretty sure that is an original dial. It says "Swiss", rather than "Swiss Made", which is mid-1950's Omega code for US market. You should send a picture of the movement. There should be an "OXG" import code on it somewhere.

    Omega used the 2-tone guilloche dials mostly on the early Constellations/Globemasters, but I have seen them on Seamasters like this.

    I am assuming that this is a gold-capped case, as opposed to solid gold.

    As others have pointed out, all of the hands are incorrect, broken or both. They can probably be replaced, but it might alter the vintage look of the watch.

    You didn't state an offer price, but if it is more than $200 to $300, then I would pass. The major value here is the dial.
    gatorcpa
     
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  9. nicks

    nicks Jan 13, 2020

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    Thanks again.

    To answer some of the questions--I didn't take a movement pic, but it had the import code. There were lots of scrapes on the plates. It was not a pretty sight, but working fine. And yes, gold-capped.

    The watch is in a local shop in Canada, and listed at $650 (that's the USD equivalent). However, I could get it for not much more than gatorcpa has indicated as part of a larger purchase, and I do a LOT of business there. It would include correct replacement hands from the stash and a one-year guarantee.

    You would think I'd get tired of these 1950s bumpers by now...I've owned many over the years, and there are a few in the watch box now. But no, not yet and maybe never.

    I will likely be on the fence until I see a few others there that I'd like to own, and perhaps pick out one or two of mine as trade possibilities.

    Meanwhile, very much appreciate the help.
     
  10. BenBagbag

    BenBagbag Jan 14, 2020

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    Way easier said than done. I'd bet good money that he doesn't have the correct hands for that watch unless he pulled them off this one himself. (Either way it's a pass, as stated above by others.)
     
  11. nicks

    nicks Jan 14, 2020

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    The other question was whether the crosshair was centred on the logo. Hard to tell from that picture (not the best) until you blow it up and account for the shadow and some dirt. I'd say it is centred.

    Here is a very poor picture of the vintage and not-so-vintage Omegas showing at the shop. There is one Tissot in this picture. Most of these are not collector grade. The best and many much worse (parts) are not in the display. Those are Canadian dollar prices, negotiable to some extent.

    image.jpeg
     
  12. Dan S

    Dan S Jan 14, 2020

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    I get the sense that he likes to buff up the cases a bit.
     
  13. nicks

    nicks Jan 14, 2020

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    Polishing depends on the watch and the customer, but seldom using a buffing wheel. Watches come to him in every condition as you can imagine, since he will be glad to buy almost any mechanical watch for parts.

    The shop serves some wealthy local collectors, a whole bunch of collectors in the mid-ranges (like me), and the general public.

    It is quite a place. There are hundreds of NOS watches, medium and better brands, from jewelry stores that were closing and he bought the inventory. Hundreds of used watches, all brands. Thousands of metal bracelets and thousands of straps. Thousands--I do mean thousands--of broken watches.

    Here's three stories. First, I was helping a friend deal with a 14K gold 1940s Longines where the square dial had considerable patina. Went to see if it could perhaps be cleaned up a bit. In under a minute, he pulled the exact watch out of a little drawer, and we considered whether its (slightly better) dial would be a better option. Honest, the identical watch.

    Next story. Imagine you are looking for a leather strap. You know the lug size and let's say you've narrowed it down to "brown".

    So, you get handed a large plastic tub (think three or four shoeboxes worth) full of NOS brown straps with the correct lug size, and invited to find the one you like. In the tub are all price ranges of strap. Leather, reptile, gold buckles, silver buckles...he has these tubs of straps for every lug width from 14 mm up. Lots will have the old price tags still on them.

    Third story. I had an old Rolex cal 58 (?) with a tooth missing from the winding wheel. He pulled out a small cabinet drawer that had four of those movements in it, plus some other random movement parts from that calibre. Presto.

    The watch community here is so lucky. Vintage watch heaven, and a great guy too.
     
  14. DaveK

    DaveK Jan 14, 2020

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    What town is this in?
     
  15. nicks

    nicks Jan 14, 2020

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    This is Time Sharpening in Ottawa, Canada. Before you start pinging, I'm pretty sure he is extraordinarily reluctant to supply parts.

    Google Ashkan Zandi. Neat guy and quite a story.
     
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  16. DaveK

    DaveK Jan 14, 2020

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    Thx. I’m in Vancouver, but would love to wander through such a place
     
  17. Rochete

    Rochete Jan 14, 2020

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    Sounds like paradise .
     
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  18. joe band

    joe band Jan 14, 2020

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    great story! shame every country can't provide such an opportunity, but canada's gain.

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/million horologist/6133217/story.html
     
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