Accidentally left chronograph running on speedy 1863 movement

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Agree. The friction and the wear on the chronograph part will be higher if run continuously. But it is not a problem for the oil or the rest of the movement (except the reduced power reserve as explained above).

Now, some chronographs are (were?) better equiped than other for continuous running...

I do not remember which caliber it was - only that it did not have a running second - but after a year or 2 of production, the manufacturer started to repair under warranty a lot of watches, without understanding why they had so much issues. Then they realized that a lot of people were using the chronograph second hand as a running second... The chronograph part was not mounted with jewels, so, this behavior caused a lot of unexpected wear. They added jewels to fix the issue.
Vertical clutch chronographs cause no extra wear compared to lateral clutch which the Speedmaster uses.
 
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Vertical clutch chronographs cause no extra wear compared to lateral clutch which the Speedmaster uses.

Not quite...
 
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My Snoopy stopped thread here we come....
I can’t wait to get my Snoopy 3 and post that I let it run for more than 14 seconds on accident.
 
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I can’t wait to get my Snoopy 3 and post that I let it run for more than 14 seconds on accident.
You will be able to post about it, but we will never see your post as you will be drifting further away from Earth and your internet connection will drop...
 
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It's what I've always understood and if I'm wrong, I am happy to be corrected. Could you please explain your position, thanks.

"But there are some things you want to consider before you leave the chronograph running.

A chronograph is a mechanical complication that needs the energy to operate. This energy is taken from the mainspring via an escapement. Leaving the chronograph means that the watch not only needs the energy to display the time but also to keep the chronograph running. This naturally means that if you do leave the chronograph running, the watch will run out of power faster. If you wear an automatic chronograph, you may not even notice this as the movement is wound by your wrist’s natural movements, but if you have a mechanical chronograph, you will notice that you have to wind it more often.

Another thing to consider with leaving the chronograph running is that since a chronograph is a mechanical function, it consists of lots of small parts. When the chronograph is engaged, these parts move, which naturally creates friction and wear on the parts. Now, the chronograph is built to be used, but similar to a car, the more you use it, the more frequently you will have to service it. The same goes for leaving the chronograph running. Leaving the chronograph running all the time will eventually run the oils dry and have wear and tear on certain friction parts that are subject to stress."

Source: https://millenarywatches.com/bad-leave-chronograph-running/#:~:text=A chronograph is a mechanical,the mainspring via an escapement.&text=Leaving the chronograph running all,that are subject to stress.
So does running the chronograph run down the mainspring faster?
 
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It's what I've always understood and if I'm wrong, I am happy to be corrected. Could you please explain your position, thanks.

"But there are some things you want to consider before you leave the chronograph running.

A chronograph is a mechanical complication that needs the energy to operate. This energy is taken from the mainspring via an escapement. Leaving the chronograph means that the watch not only needs the energy to display the time but also to keep the chronograph running. This naturally means that if you do leave the chronograph running, the watch will run out of power faster. If you wear an automatic chronograph, you may not even notice this as the movement is wound by your wrist’s natural movements, but if you have a mechanical chronograph, you will notice that you have to wind it more often.

Another thing to consider with leaving the chronograph running is that since a chronograph is a mechanical function, it consists of lots of small parts. When the chronograph is engaged, these parts move, which naturally creates friction and wear on the parts. Now, the chronograph is built to be used, but similar to a car, the more you use it, the more frequently you will have to service it. The same goes for leaving the chronograph running. Leaving the chronograph running all the time will eventually run the oils dry and have wear and tear on certain friction parts that are subject to stress."

Source: https://millenarywatches.com/bad-leave-chronograph-running/#:~:text=A chronograph is a mechanical,the mainspring via an escapement.&text=Leaving the chronograph running all,that are subject to stress.

Im scared to wind my Speedmaster for general use without the chrono running. All those small parts running the oils dry. 😲

Anyone have a quartz speedy for sale......
 
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So does running the chronograph run down the mainspring faster?
Running the chronograph places a greater demand on the mainspring, but , if you stopped the chronograph at the moment when the mainspring could no longer provide the required torque of the combined watch and the chronograph movements, the extra energy demanded by the chronograph would no longer be required and the watch would then continue to run and run for just as long as if the chronograph had never been started in the first place. Yes and NO?
 
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Yes 😀

no actually.
Running the chronograph places a greater demand on the mainspring, but , if you stopped the chronograph at the moment when the mainspring could no longer provide the required torque of the combined watch and the chronograph movements, the extra energy demanded by the chronograph would no longer be required and the watch would then continue to run and run for just as long as if the chronograph had never been started in the first place. Yes and NO?
Yes
 
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no actually.

Yes

Without stopping the chrono though....

If we do an experiment....

1. Wind watch fully, then check power reserve

2. Wind watch fully, start chrono and leave it running, then check power reserve

The power reserve on 2. will be shorter!

Hence, running the chrono continuously, shortens the power reserve, in other words, the chrono runs down the mainspring faster

Please correct me if I’m wrong :thinking:
 
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The gears (wheel and pinion) are the results of calculation depending of the oscillating rate. The mainspring is inside a barrel that have teeth too (the force is delivered to the center wheel and so on until the pallet fork).
My point is the mainspring can't go faster or slower because of the chronograph function. Most of the time the chronograph function had an influence on the amplitude (due to the extra gears) => the power reserve is theoretically inchanged but the watch can stop earlier when the chrono is functioning but when the watch stops if you stop the chrono the watch will run a bit more
 
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Has it been done? Anyone? Two exact same Speedmasters, (any 2 - as near as possible - manual chronograph movements would do) fully wound, left alone, one with chronograph running, one with chronograph not running, what sort of differential are we talking? Seconds, minutes?
Obviously there would be other factors, service, etc..
 
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The gears (wheel and pinion) are the results of calculation depending of the oscillating rate. The mainspring is inside a barrel that have teeth too (the force is delivered to the center wheel and so on until the pallet fork).
My point is the mainspring can't go faster or slower because of the chronograph function. Most of the time the chronograph function had an influence on the amplitude (due to the extra gears) => the power reserve is theoretically inchanged but the watch can stop earlier when the chrono is functioning but when the watch stops if you stop the chrono the watch will run a bit more

Best eg. of this is the date. Automatic watches have a habit of stopping around the beginning of a date change.. As the extra power to shift the date is just that too much. I am not sure if I am right, but that is how I envisage it.
 
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Anything in use will wear out faster than when it's not. Buying a chronograph and being too worried about using it due to increased wear and tear makes no sense to me. Oils will dry out over time anyway.
 
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Has it been done? Anyone? Two exact same Speedmasters, (any 2 - as near as possible - manual chronograph movements would do) fully wound, left alone, one with chronograph running, one with chronograph not running, what sort of differential are we talking? Seconds, minutes?
Obviously there would be other factors, service, etc..
I've tested the difference between chrono not running / running on freshly serviced watches --
Heuer 7753 with Valjoux 7730 movement: not running 43:00, running 41:50.
Zodiac (Heuer) 7721 with Valjoux 7733 46:20 / 44:00,
Speedy Reduced 49:04 / 48:50 (those extra jewels in the DD module?).

Unknown service state:
Heuer 3647 with Valjoux 92: 39:90 / 36:30.

So it ranges from insignificant to about 10% (although that particular watch does need a service).
 
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Without stopping the chrono though....

If we do an experiment....

1. Wind watch fully, then check power reserve

2. Wind watch fully, start chrono and leave it running, then check power reserve

The power reserve on 2. will be shorter!

Hence, running the chrono continuously, shortens the power reserve, in other words, the chrono runs down the mainspring faster

Please correct me if I’m wrong :thinking:

Do you teach math or physics?

Anyway, yes, the watch will stop sooner with the chronograph running, but that does not mean that the mainspring unwinds "faster" with the chronograph running. The power reserve of a watch is a fixed thing, based on the number of turns of the mainspring barrel, and the number of turns of the center wheel. The number of turns of the barrel is determined by the length of the mainspring. The formula for this is:

n2/n1 = Z1/Z2

Where:

Z1 - number of teeth in the barrel
Z2 - number of teeth in the center pinion
n1 - number of revolutions of the barrel
n2 - number of revolutions of the center pinion

Yes, the watch will stop sooner with the chronograph running, but it has nothing to do with the mainspring unwinding faster. It stops sooner due to the torque being delivered by the mainspring, no longer exceeding the loads on the movement. The torque delivered by the mainspring drops over time, as shown on this graph:



The watch will stop even without the chronograph running, due to the loads exceeding the torque. So in fact, a watch mainspring never fully unwinds, because the torque will drop lower than is required to keep the watch operating no matter what. So the only thing that changes the point where it stops on that curve in the chart above, is what the loads are.

Loads can come from many different things - chronograph function running, date change, or even the movement just being dirty or worn out. This is why testing how long the watch will run against the designed power reserve can be an indicator of the watch condition.

So if you look at the chart above, under normal conditions without any extra loads from complications, let's say the watch stops on that chart at 6 turns of the mainspring barrel, leaving 1/2 a turn still to unwind. When you add the chronograph to the loads, the torque level required to keep the watch functioning is higher, so it will stop at say 5.5 turns of the barrel. But after it stops, you can turn the chronograph off again, and the watch will run until it reaches 6 turns again. This illustrates clearly that the spring hasn't "run down" faster.

So no, it is physically impossible for the spring to wind down faster, unless the movement speeds up dramatically, and that doesn't happen when the chronograph is running. The mainspring in a watch doesn't operate like a battery, where a higher load will "drain" it faster.

Note that you are not alone in this belief. I have to explain this to someone, somewhere, about once a month. I recently had one very smart individual tell me this explanation defies the laws of thermodynamics, which was interesting to say the least. 🤦

Cheers, Al
 
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My car uses more fuel with the boat trailer on the back
 
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My car uses more fuel with the boat trailer on the back
Some applies when the airco is on, that's why I resist using the airco as much as possible.
 
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I recently had one very smart individual tell me this explanation defies the laws of thermodynamics, which was interesting to say the least. 🤦
That is admittedly quite funny.