A New-to-me Universal Geneve 285 Uni-compax

csikora · Mar 18, 2013

I was able to get this off of ebay a few months back. It keeps surprisingly good time, but does need a servicing at some point. It is a nice rose gold-tone case with SS back. The 285 movement is nice, but does have some rust present. The dial has some damage, but it otherwise works nicely.
I'm not certain, but there is something funny about the case. The metal isn't great quality...the lugs are thin and somewhat pitted. The caseback only shows 4 numbers and is a snap-off type. There is perlage on the inside, but it isn't 'nice' like on other casebacks I've inspected. The crown is unmarked and matches the case. At least the pushers are nice!
Would others have the same concerns about this? Does it look like an early re-case?
Given the serial number on the movement (255xxx) , can this watch be accurately dated?
C

woodwkr2 · Mar 20, 2013

Beautiful, but very very rough watch. Looks like the original case back was lost (along with several other parts, likely). That probably explains all the oxidation and damage to the movement.

Forget about keeping the "non polished" lines of the case. I'd polish the hell out of that thing and make it nice and shiny. When you get it serviced, you'll have a decision to make depending on your budget and your watchmaker's skills/patience. You can go for the "just get her clean and running" approach, or the "restore the whole movement and refinish the parts as needed" approach, which will likely involve replacing the regulator and some screws at a minimum. Those steeled chrono components would look quite nice with a good black polish to them, though!--especially contrasted against the pale electroplated golden color.

You'll probably never find a real case back with a correct reference on it. If I were you, I'd get my watchmaker to black polish the movement and get a custom crystal back made for the watch (nothing hard, actually: Just need someone to turn a reverse bezel and fit it for a crystal).

Then I'd be on the lookout for a NOS dial. Though if everything else is looking shiny and beautiful, sometimes a raggady old vintage dial looks amazing.

I insist on 100% correct vintage pieces. If I can't get that, I say make your own and love it. To each his own.

woodwkr2 · Mar 20, 2013

To answer your questions:
1) No, no one to my knowledge knows how to interpret movement numbers. You can date the dial at least based on the Universal logo and general time period of the style.
2) The case may be original and just polished to hell. Or it may be a replacement case. Can't tell from here without handling it.
3) Pushers and crown look fine.
4) Caseback is not original to watch. It was either lost, or if it is a solid gold watch, someone likely melted it for the $$ and replaced the back with a random stainless snap on that fit.
5) The sub-seconds dial with the ball end is a replacement. It should be straight like the other subdial hand. These are very hard to find replacements for, and given the other concerns, if it doesn't bother you, who cares.

woodwkr2 · Mar 20, 2013

One more thing. I know it's your new toy, and I know that it's keeping decent time. But for the love of god, stop winding up that grimy old movement. If you had any idea how incredibly impossible replacement parts are for those movements, you would never want to inflict the tiniest bit of 'extra' wear and tear on those little gears.

It's like running a nice car well, well past due for an oil change. Can you do it and get away with it? Absolutely. If you envisioned owning the car for 10-15 years would you do it? No way.

csikora · Mar 20, 2013

woodwkr2
One more thing. I know it's your new toy, and I know that it's keeping decent time. But for the love of god, stop winding up that grimy old movement. If you had any idea how incredibly impossible replacement parts are for those movements, you would never want to inflict the tiniest bit of 'extra' wear and tear on those little gears.

It's like running a nice car well, well past due for an oil change. Can you do it and get away with it? Absolutely. If you envisioned owning the car for 10-15 years would you do it? No way.

Thanks for the info...I wasn't entirely sure about the subsecond hand, but it does make sense that it is a replacement. I'll have to see if I can hunt down a replacement caseback. A clear one might actually be a nice change from anything else I have.
Point well taken - I know I shouldn't be winding this thing until it's had a service.
Is there a watchmaker in Canada someone might recommend?
C

sohail · Mar 20, 2013

Hi these uni compax also came with davis duff logo on top of the dial and universal geneve written at the bottom ... Any info on that? Regards

woodwkr2 · Mar 20, 2013

sohail
Hi these uni compax also came with davis duff logo on top of the dial and universal geneve written at the bottom ... Any info on that? Regards

Pictures?

LouS · Mar 20, 2013

sohail
Hi these uni compax also came with davis duff logo on top of the dial and universal geneve written at the bottom ... Any info on that? Regards

Davis Duff & Sons would have been a retailer brand, and could easily ave co-existed on a double branded dial, much like the more familiar Turler, Gobbi, Frecce, Tiffany & Co, Black, Starr & Frost or dozens of others. Retailer branding was not specific to watch model or manufacturer.

csikora · Mar 20, 2013

...oops, I just noticed that the three movement retaining screws are different.

LouS · Mar 20, 2013

csikora
...oops, I just noticed that the three movement retaining screws are different.

I've got to say it - honestly, that piece is a bit of a mess, and never mind the screws. The case is savagely overpolished, the caseback is from another watch entirely, the movement is grungy and the dial shows a wear pattern suggesting it was banged around and abraded while outside the case. I suspect the watch is a franken, consisting of a dial and movement that rattled around in a drawer after the original case was melted, and before it found a home in the current, rather abused case, which I doubt is of UG origin at all.

Mothra · Mar 20, 2013

csikora
Thanks for the info...I wasn't entirely sure about the subsecond hand, but it does make sense that it is a replacement. I'll have to see if I can hunt down a replacement caseback. A clear one might actually be a nice change from anything else I have.
Point well taken - I know I shouldn't be winding this thing until it's had a service.
Is there a watchmaker in Canada someone might recommend?
C

re watchmaker in canada reach out to Archer on this site. I posted about his work on the forum a while back...

woodwkr2 · Mar 20, 2013

Al Archer does fine work and charges a fine (and totally reasonable) price. But it's more than I'd want to sink into this watch.

If you don't have your own neighborhood guy that could handle this work for submarket rates, I'm really not sure it's worth the expense.

If resources are not a problem and you're committed to this watch, you could certainly fix it up nicely like I suggested previously. But if you are a budding collector with limited funds, I'd save those funds to buy a better example rather than throwing them after this project.

If you have an interest in learning watch repair, tuck this one away and pull it out when you have the sufficient skills, it would be a nice weekend project.

sohail · Mar 21, 2013

By the way how much did u Pay for this one .... If I may ask......

csikora · Mar 21, 2013

sohail
By the way how much did u Pay for this one .... If I may ask......

Well, it was under 400USD, so I figured it was a worthwhile risk.

dsio · Mar 21, 2013

csikora
Well, it was under 400USD, so I figured it was a worthwhile risk.

Damn, not bad at all!

ETime · Mar 27, 2013

$400 for that watch is a great buy.

With regard to the suggestion of NOS dials, can you suggest where to look for those? I am working on a 263 project and I need a dial. Alternatively, who has good dies for redialing UG? My 263 project would be fine with a redial -- but I sent it to International Dial and the die they suggested looked nothing like the original.

Mark020 · Nov 28, 2021

Very late answer 😀 Think this is a 12494. Other example here: https://www.catawiki.com/nl/l/52325949-universal-geneve-compax-12494-cal-285-heren-1950-1959

bgrisso · Nov 28, 2021

surprised no one pointed out the obvious redial in this thread. Who knows if it's even a UG case?

Mark020 · Nov 29, 2021

Because it is too obvious I think 😀

Case looks legit to me

A New-to-me Universal Geneve 285 Uni-compax

csikora

woodwkr2

woodwkr2

woodwkr2

csikora

sohail

woodwkr2

LouS

csikora

LouS

Mothra

woodwkr2

sohail

csikora

dsio

ETime

Mark020

bgrisso

Mark020

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