A 2998-4 For Sale on IG, But Is It?

eugeneandresson · Jan 16, 2021

Must be the mega elusive 105.003-4 (Aka the Walter White) 🤪

Marsimaxam · Jan 16, 2021

"Collectors won't touch this watch because it was built with parts, but it is still a "nice" watch for those who don't dwell into the minutiae of originality.

My 2 (Canadian) cents..."

I get it. There are individuals out there who just want to buy a watch and don't care if it is all original as long as it looks appealing. But, then why not simply advertise the watch as an Omega Speedmaster 1960s instead of providing inaccurate details about the watch. Personally, if you are going to describe something for sell, it is my opinion, you should, at least attempt, to describe accurately to any and all potential buyers, especially if you are a dealer in the merchandise. It is easy to forgive those who are not collectors or dealers who don't know what they are selling, but, that is another story.... the old lady selling her son's 67 Corvette for 1K, or the daughter selling her father's Rolex Daytona from the 1960s with that funny dial for 10K, and thinking it was a great sell.

Larry S · Jan 16, 2021

Davidt
Haven’t we discussed a hundred dodgy sales listings from this dealer?

YES

Deafboy · Jan 16, 2021

Dan S
Do you have some sort of agenda here?

No, I don't have an agenda. I don't know this seller, and have never seen their IG. People were attacking this seller because the watch wasn't original. The seller never claimed it was nor are they obligated to point out every non-original detail of a watch that is otherwise functioning properly. I picked your post because of the claim of "this dealer has a lot of mistakes in his listings" when it didn't seem to me this particular IG post had egregious inaccuracies. I missed that you mentioned listings (plural) and talking generally. I apologize that I offended you.

cvalue13 · Jan 16, 2021

Deafboy
The seller never claimed it was nor are they obligated to point out every non-original detail of a watch that is otherwise functioning properly. I picked your post because of the claim of "this dealer has a lot of mistakes in his listings" when it didn't seem to me this particular IG post had egregious inaccuracies.

No “egregious” inaccuracies? I guess it depends entirely on your view of “egregious”?

If this were a car dealer who specialized in selling collectible vintage cars, and he misstated the vehicle’s make and model, didnt mention the vehicle has unoriginal paint, a crate motor, and both bumpers are off a different model... sure, some people just want a cool-looking car for collectible-correct prices?

Davidt · Jan 17, 2021

Deafboy
No, I don't have an agenda. I don't know this seller, and have never seen their IG. People were attacking this seller because the watch wasn't original. The seller never claimed it was nor are they obligated to point out every non-original detail of a watch that is otherwise functioning properly. I picked your post because of the claim of "this dealer has a lot of mistakes in his listings" when it didn't seem to me this particular IG post had egregious inaccuracies. I missed that you mentioned listings (plural) and talking generally. I apologized if I offended you.

I disagree. If a dealer advertises themselves as a trade dealer, sold as seen with no guarantees, trade prices but open to the public then the onus is on the buyer to do their research. Similarly if it's a private/estate sale.

If on the other hand it's a dealer saying they specialise in and curate all their vintage watches, along with charging a dealer premium, they should absolutely know their product and be describing their watches accurately and correctly. Otherwise what bloody value are they adding for their cut?

Obviously everyone makes the odd mistake but when it becomes routine it should raise questions.

Deafboy · Jan 17, 2021

Davidt
If on the other hand it's a dealer saying they specialise in and curate all their vintage watches, along with charging a dealer premium, they should absolutely know their product and be describing their watches accurately and correctly. Otherwise what bloody value are they adding for their cut?

Would be nice but do you know of such dealers? I can't think of a dealer not on OF that will declare in their listing that the hands are not the right type or the crystal is missing the logo. For example, look at many well-known auctioneers that have auctions of "curated" watches: photoshopped pictures, no movement pictures, little or no description of condition, etc.

t_swiss_t · Jan 17, 2021

Engee
Selling on IG would immediately ring alarm bells for me. Why would any serious seller, looking for someone who would be seriously interested in this watch, put it on IG? Even if they were offering it elsewhere why would they bother with IG? The only reason I can think of would be because they are hoping to catch someone out who doesn’t know better.

Plenty of collectors buy and sell through Instagram. I usually post sales both on OF and IG - from the seller’s perspective, the potential buyer audience is much bigger and broader. Just because you aren’t familiar with IG doesn’t make it uncouth. Either on IG or OF (or anywhere else), you have to vet the seller and the watch just the same.

kaplan · Jan 17, 2021

I personally hate social media and Instagram, but my brother keeps sharing Instagram watches with me, they are all 2x the market value, but they quickly get marked as sold

So the takeaway is, don't buy from IG, but know there's a market there - all the watches are "Instagram Ready" too - so these sellers all have watchmakers that clean and service the watches - from a careless buyer's perspective it's a nice experience I guess

t_swiss_t · Jan 17, 2021

kaplan
I personally hate social media and Instagram, but my brother keeps sharing Instagram watches with me, they are all 2x the market value, but they quickly get marked as sold

So the takeaway is, don't buy from IG, but know there's a market there - all the watches are "Instagram Ready" too - so these sellers all have watchmakers that clean and service the watches - from a careless buyer's perspective it's a nice experience I guess

By starting your comment with, “I personally hate social media and Instagram,” it’s hard to think that you’d come to any other conclusion. Yes, there are plenty of high priced dealers you can laugh at and end up disregarding the platform because of a superficial look. But go to the dealer sales section on OF and there are plenty of similarly ‘prepped’ and overpriced watches. If you use it as a way to connect with other collectors, it’s a nice platform through which to meet people and find watches you’d never see on the forums.

On the flip side, many disregard OF and other forums as a bunch of armchair experts who haven’t handled/owned many of the watches of which they opine on. But I think it’s a good place for discussion and some of the collectors are knowledgeable. IG and the forums have complementary strengths, weaknesses, and functions. That’s why I use and have found value in both.

kaplan · Jan 17, 2021

You're awfully defensive, lol

I'm saying they get the watches serviced, cleaned, and market to a different audience, who are in the end, happy

But my prejudice is that it would be hard to find raw beauty in a place where marketing is life

t_swiss_t · Jan 17, 2021

kaplan
You're awfully defensive, lol

I'm saying they get the watches serviced, cleaned, and market to a different audience, who are in the end, happy

But my prejudice is that it would be hard to find raw beauty in a place where marketing is life

Take it how you want to, there’s a lot of “I don’t use IG so it’s terrible” on OF so I felt like responding with a thought our comment is more constructive than just saying “I use IG and it’s great and you’re wrong.”

Not sure how much easier it is to find raw beauty on the forums though, I the watches for sale here are from other collectors who have had it serviced (hopefully) or dealers who post on here. Same can be said of collectors who post things for sale on IG. Every ‘original owner looking for advice’ thread is bombarded by forum sharks DMs anyway so don’t think raw beauty barn finds are the purview of the forums. I like untouched watches as well, and original owner watches make up the majority of my collection, but that’s best found through direct sales from owners offline, eBay, or through small auctions.

Dan S · Jan 17, 2021

Personally, I think IG can be a nice way to find good photos of watches and to connect with people, but I haven't found it to be a useful way to buy and sell.

t_swiss_t · Jan 17, 2021

Dan S
Personally, I think IG can be a nice way to find good photos of watches and to connect with people, but I haven't found it to be a useful way to buy and sell.

Can totally see that. I think the buying/selling pluses are that you can reach a lot of the non-English language world and collectors that do not join forums, but the ability to sell is dependent on having built a network there - versus the forums were there is a dichotomous bar that you reach and then can sell to everyone. Buying is similar in that the more you connect with other collectors the more doors open for sales/trades. So, to me, the potential is greater, but it also requires more effort to make it worthwhile.

cvalue13 · Jan 17, 2021

t_swiss_t
On the flip side, many disregard OF and other forums as a bunch of armchair experts who haven’t handled/owned many of the watches of which they opine on.

Of all the available critiques of OF, this is a strange one to pluck

I assume most outsiders complain about @STANDY

t_swiss_t · Jan 17, 2021

cvalue13
Of all the available critiques of OF, this is a strange one to pluck

I assume most outsiders complain about @STANDY

Haha - that and the general Austrailio-centrism run rampant through these pages. 😉

Dan S · Jan 17, 2021

t_swiss_t
Can totally see that. I think the buying/selling pluses are that you can reach a lot of the non-English language world and collectors that do not join forums, but the ability to sell is dependent on having built a network there - versus the forums were there is a dichotomous bar that you reach and then can sell to everyone. Buying is similar in that the more you connect with other collectors the more doors open for sales/trades. So, to me, the potential is greater, but it also requires more effort to make it worthwhile.

My experience is that IG is swarming with less serious people that dilute the serious collectors who are truly interested in making realistic deals. Any time I list something, I am swamped with messages from lookie-loos and low-ballers. Its overwhelming. Even when I have accepted offers, the deals fall apart. I have never successfully sold a watch through IG.

I do remember successfully buying a watch one time from a collector in the Netherlands, but the vast majority of people selling watches are fishing for absurd "make me sell it" offers. It's just incredibly inefficient and time-wasting. Not worth it for me anymore. I will just sell on the forum and eBay, where people are more serious and realistic. I will sometimes put a photo of a watch for sale on IG, but refer people to the forum listings for details.

cvalue13 · Jan 17, 2021

t_swiss_t
Haha - that and the general Austrailio-centrism run rampant through these pages. 😉

See, different strokes for different folks.

I for one stick around primarily to see photos of @STANDY comparing the size of his wife to fish he’s caught; I even keep all my 24hr pieces following Australian time just to be in mind of it

t_swiss_t · Jan 17, 2021

Dan S
My experience is that IG is swarming with less serious people that dilute the serious collectors who are truly interested in making realistic deals. Any time I list something, I am swamped with messages from lookie-loos and low-ballers. Its overwhelming. Even when I have accepted offers, the deals fall apart. I have never successfully sold a watch through IG. ... .

Understand that view and completely valid, just depends on your tolerability. At this point I have a good network of friends and collectors there that I buy and sell with so I am somewhat inured to those issues. When I post public sales there I do co-post on OF and just delete DMs who don’t look at it since yes, that can be a time suck. I will have to use “lookie-loos” more, I like it. eBay and realism though...I’m not sure where those two connect 😁.

Dan S · Jan 17, 2021

t_swiss_t
eBay and realism though...I’m not sure where those two connect 😁.

I have probably sold more items on eBay than anywhere else. It's incredibly easy, and I usually get my price if I just leave the listing there and politely reject low-ball offers. Personally, I have no horror stories to share as a seller. IMO, the main negative is the fees, but they're not outrageous.