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A 2998-4 For Sale on IG, But Is It?

Marsimaxam
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i saw this 2998-4 Speedmaster for sale on Instagram this morning. At first glance the price of 14.5 OBO seems very fair... but, all isn’t right. No images of the movement or inside of case-back, the hands are baton and the movement number is listed as 19.8, a little high for a 2988-4, more likely a 105.002-62, maybe a 2998-5.

A 2998-4 should have alpha hands and thin baton or possibly a lollipop chronograph hand. Hands have been questioned on IG.

All the more reasons to do your due diligence.

Thoughts on this one... and, no, I’m not buying.
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Engee
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Selling on IG would immediately ring alarm bells for me. Why would any serious seller, looking for someone who would be seriously interested in this watch, put it on IG? Even if they were offering it elsewhere why would they bother with IG? The only reason I can think of would be because they are hoping to catch someone out who doesn’t know better.
 
mac_omega
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Engee Engee
Selling on IG would immediately ring alarm bells for me. Why would any serious seller, looking for someone who would be seriously interested in this watch, put it on IG? Even if they were offering it elsewhere why would they bother with IG? The only reason I can think of would be because they are hoping to catch someone out who doesn’t know better.

or to save on taxes?
 
Seaborg
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Über-polished caseback.
Obvious wrong hands. Sweep second hand seems too short.
Damaged 12' lume plot.
No silver rehault on the service crystal.
No pictures of the movement nor of the inside of the caseback.
Maybe a good price for parts.
Edited:
 
kov
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Dan S Dan S
It's pretty clear that the hands aren't original.

Let alone that minute hand that is not Moonwatch hand. 👎
 
Marsimaxam
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I found this all perturbing as I know the dealer and I know he has the book, "Moonwatch Only" in his library. It was so obvious that so many things were wrong with the watch, as stated... the hands, the damaged lume plots, polished case, minute hand not even a Moonwatch hand, the movement number associated with the reference, and, finally, no movement or inside of caseback images.

Why? Yes, I know the answer.
 
Franco
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My 2998-4 is very different, this one it’s better you ignore.
 
Davidt
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Haven’t we discussed a hundred dodgy sales listings from this dealer?
 
Seaborg
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My guess : complete built-up watch from parts. Maybe not even a Speedmaster movement (321 Seamaster ?)...
 
momentomori
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As my eyes are getting better for this sort of thing, I think I can confidently say now that that case has been polished quite a bit.
 
Dan S
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Davidt Davidt
Haven’t we discussed a hundred dodgy sales listings from this dealer?

I can only say that this dealer has a lot of mistakes in his listings. Obviously I have no idea about his motivations, and I know that at least one of the mods doesn't like us to suggest that a dealer is dishonest, since mistakes can be made. I recall reading a thread on some forum where the dealer came in to defend himself, and was very passionate about his integrity and confirmed that sometimes he makes mistakes. Take it for what it's worth. Obviously, such a high profile dealer should be an expert, and has some responsibility for accuracy.
 
Marsimaxam
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Dealer sent me images of the movement and the inside of the case back and I responded with this DM
“Definitely concerns about watch as a 2998-4 should have alpha hands and a thin baton chronograph or lollipop hand. The movement number is out of the range of a 2998-4, and indicative of a later reference. The minute hand is not a correct Speedmaster hand as the lume is way too short, should extend almost to the base.
If you have reference book “Moonwatch Only”, compare images of the 2998-4, and movement numbers.”

Dealer replied," I see, we do have the book in the shop and I will check it when I'm in on Tuesday."

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Edited:
 
Deafboy
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Dan S Dan S
I can only say that this dealer has a lot of mistakes in his listings.

I know little about Speedmasters so what are the mistakes you refer to?
 
Davidt
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I'm not sure it matters whether a dealer intends to misdescribe items or not. The end result is the same - a buyer still ends up paying a dealer premium for an incorrect watch.
 
Dan S
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Deafboy Deafboy
I know little about Speedmasters so what are the mistakes you refer to?

Sounds like a challenge. My comment was clearly a general one, since I referred to "listings". The errors in this case are mainly by omission of things that should obviously be disclosed. I have identified dozens of errors in the listings on this dealer's website. Occasionally I have posted them on this forum or others. In my personal opinion, his listings are particularly error-prone compared to most prominent dealers. You are free to disagree if you think his listings are accurate.
 
Deafboy
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Dan S Dan S
You are free to disagree if you think his listings are accurate.

Like I said I know little about Speedmasters. Reading this thread I didn't really see much complaining about the actual description the OP posted (with the exception of the "unpolished case") but more about the originality of the watch (which is not mentioned in the listing). Collectors won't touch this watch because it was built with parts, but it is still a "nice" watch for those who don't dwell into the minutiae of originality.

My 2 (Canadian) cents...
 
BlackTalon
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Hmmm, how about the ad identifying it as both an Ed White and a 2998-4? I didn't bother reading closely past that one, but I did also chuckle at "500 MPH bezel" (the wording -- never seen one identified like that). I was surprised to see such a description from a regular seller.
 
Dan S
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Deafboy Deafboy
Like I said I know little about Speedmasters. Reading this thread I didn't really see much complaining about the actual description the OP posted (with the exception of the "unpolished case") but more about the originality of the watch (which is not mentioned in the listing). Collectors won't touch this watch because it was built with parts, but it is still a "nice" watch for those who don't dwell into the minutiae of originality.

My 2 (Canadian) cents...

Your responses are getting stranger and stranger. Do you have some sort of agenda here? Either for the seller or against me? Why are you making a red herring argument about something I never even said? I never claimed that this particular IG post (which is not a listing, it's an IG post) was inaccurate. If you look back at my post that you decided to pick on, I pointed out that this seller has a lot of mistakes in his listings. "Listings". Which is absolutely true. Over the years I have seen a disproportionate number of blatant errors in listings in his online store. I don't even follow him on IG.
 
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