564 caliber

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Hi everyone,
I have a question about vintage calibers. On the 564 calibre, we can fini different models of rotor. On the pictures, you can see 2 models and it is real 564 calibers. Could you tell me why ? It depends on the serial number ? Production date or other thing ?
Thank you !

 
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Many of the 500 series movements had parts that were interchangeable between models. I suspect there are differences to to replacement rotors being substituted during repair work.

The Omega Tecg Guide shows this style.




There could have been variations in production runs, but I can't confirm that.
 
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And do you know where I can fine this technical guide please ? Thank's a lot.
 
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It’s been suggested that the rotors with the circle under the word ‘watch’ are service replacements.

Also, a watchmaker once told me that the rotors with the less elaborate pivot point (last of your pictures) are from later production movements, whereas the more elaborate/raised pivots are from movements early-mid production. I don’t know if this is true or not but it’s what I was told.
 
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It’s been suggested that the rotors with the circle under the word ‘watch’ are service replacements.

Also, a watchmaker once told me that the rotors with the less elaborate pivot point (last of your pictures) are from later production movements, whereas the more elaborate/raised pivots are from movements early-mid production. I don’t know if this is true or not but it’s what I was told.
Thank you.
It's possible. The serial number on the second picture begins by 3xxxxxx. On my constellation it's the same.
On the other it begins by 2xxxxxx.
 
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Also, keep in mind that for a long time, parts were available for everyone and much cheaper than today. The whole auto winding module including the rotor could be easily swapped.
This can explain the variations that don't follow the chronology of the serial numbers.
 
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Thank you.
It's possible. The serial number on the second picture begins by 3xxxxxx. On my constellation it's the same.
On the other it begins by 2xxxxxx.

Let’s be definitive where we can.

The ‘simple’ rotor appears on later Constellation movements - from around the end of the 60s.
If it is in an earlier movement it is a replacement.

Less definitively, it is now commonly thought that the circle symbol on a rotor defines a service part but to my knowledge there is no written evidence to prove this point.

Replacement rotors are not usually an issue with collectors but a simple rotor does look wrong on a watch that didn’t have one originally. ( mainly because they are not as attractive as the earlier rotor style)
 
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And do you know where I can fine this technical guide please ? Thank's a lot.
There's one on Cousins UK. Scroll to the bottom of the home page and hit Useful Guides / Document Downloads.
 
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Let’s be definitive where we can.

The ‘simple’ rotor appears on later Constellation movements - from around the end of the 60s.
If it is in an earlier movement it is a replacement.

Less definitively, it is now commonly thought that the circle symbol on a rotor defines a service part but to my knowledge there is no written evidence to prove this point.

Replacement rotors are not usually an issue with collectors but a simple rotor does look wrong on a watch that didn’t have one originally. ( mainly because they are not as attractive as the earlier rotor style)
Thank you for your reply. It seems to be difficult to have the truth but I understand, it seems to be a good analysis. But if you have to change rotor, I think you don't have the choice. If Omega stopped to produce the first style of rotor, you have to use the last, it's still a 564 caliber despite everything.
 
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Thank you for your reply. It seems to be difficult to have the truth but I understand, it seems to be a good analysis. But if you have to change rotor, I think you don't have the choice. If Omega stopped to produce the first style of rotor, you have to use the last, it's still a 564 caliber despite everything.
IIRC, at one time the rotor and bridge would be replaced as a unit, so yes, a replacement rotor would be the new less attractive version.
Nowadays watchmakers can use the old rotor with a new bearing, so best of both worlds.
 
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It's like Omega changed the movement every year, so the finish/color changes from watch to watch, also each watch patinated / got damaged differently and those differ as well

As others mentioned sometimes watchmakers took particular parts through an eroding chemical and those changed color as well, often times you see a rotor that has a different hue than the rest of the watch
 
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I have been sourcing parts for a 564. Everything is pretty much the same as the 563. The main difference is the jewel count and the markings on the bridges.

565 is the same as 564. The difference is in how the watch is adjusted. 564 is a chronometer movement. Adjusted to 5 positions. This would imply that the finish on the parts is different. The spare parts however are usually labeled with 563 prefix.

These movements have a quickset date. They also have different endstones on the balance that than 562 and earlier. Using a press fit lower endstone assembly.

565 and 564 have the same jewel count. It seems like a lot of 565 movements get swapped into higher grade cases. Without the statistical grading machines used at manufacture. These watches probably do not have the adjustments stamped on the plates. At best such timekeepers are timed with a cheap Chinese timegrapher. This work can take a lot of trial and error. There are some who can sense this intuitively. For the most part it comes down to how fast can one deal with the watch. Especially in a commercial setup where 3 or 4 watches are serviced in an 8 to 10 hour day.

I think the Watchco assemblies used 565 movements pulled from lower grade or scrapped gold cases. My guess there are a lot of marriages and frakens out there. It takes a lot of handling actual watches to really get a feel for what may or may not have been done over the decades of use. These items are in the geriatric stage of existance. It will only be a couple decades before they are true antiques at 90 to 100 years of age. Some are already aproching 70 or 80.

I have yet to source the rotor for my 564. Where I can I source parts assortments and job lots. These parts are still out there. But the supply is spotty. I sort of missed out on the cheaper parts at the start of this century. Thinking that the online shops were total fraud cesspools. It was also hard to find and search the manufactures data sheets for part numbers. Now we are at the point (and probably have been all along) with estate sale dumping. So the job lots tend to be feast or famine. I could use more sweep seconds pinions. Somehow I got a lot of 470 sweep pinions which mount into the bridge. A few months ago pallet forks were in short supply. So one really has to have a lot of patience and perseverance. Does one make the choice to go for a job lot of 470 parts which are not compatible with 55x in case a 470 or 50x assortment is listed cheap.

Some of the parts like the quickset levers can be made with a fiber laser. There are still suppliers of after market set bridge springs and balance staffs. This tech may also work for hands and dials. I have not had the time to work with this side of things.

The plating on the bridges does seem sensitive to environmental color shifts. So when one does have a lot of assorted parts it takes some time to get the plates and brides matched. There are subtle differences on the base plates. These often get listed under the wrong caliber. A 561 base plate is not compatible with 563 or even a 613. Mostly due to the date clearances. As these were used improvements were made to not only the rotors and rotor clearances, the calendar wheels also had changes to improve reliability.

It is also another thing to nickel and dime the parts. All though pounds and gunnies are closer to the mark here. When I look back at the half dozen or so movements I acquired in the last few months, It probably would have been better to save the shiekls and bought two or three complete junkers with cases. Although those are not always as fun as the chase for the missing part. The anticipation of looking at it in the watch list. checking the tracking every morning waiting for the part to arrive. Of course when the part does arrive, there is another part needed.