506 end links - NOS or bad ??

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Here is a clearer timeline of events


·20/11 deal agreed, later that day I inform buyer of end link issue telling him his friend won’t be happy. I send the buyer two quick photos to show the end links are not 19mm.

·21/11 buyer asked for a £300 discount and I agree

·23/11 buyer pays

·24/11 payment clears to my account and ship to the buyer same day

·25/11 buyer receives bracelets

·26/11 buyer confirms receipt of the bracelets and confirms they are “Both really good”

·27/11 Buyer leaves me feedback in the buyers/seller section “bracelet was better condition than described”

·9/12 Buyer messages me to say his friend isn’t happy. This is two weeks after the buyer received the bracelets. We agree I would send a pair of 18mm end links.

·10/12 I post the 18mm end links as agreed

·15/12 18mm end links delivered

·22/12 buyer tells me he is still not happy

·29/12 buyer threatens legal action and threatens to post here on OF if I don’t confirm a return. Buyer makes claim the end links are not NOS, they were not sold as NOS and the buyer has translated what I have written wrong.

·30/12 Buyer states his NOS claim again and asked to return the bracelet - £150

·2/1 I again inform the buyer the end links were NOT sold as NOS and remind him we agreed to an additional pair of 18mm being send to him.

·26/1 Buyer starts a thread asking if the end links are NOS. He clearly still doesn’t understand what I have written and if he thought he was buying a pair of NOS end links then that was his error in his translation.


Unfortunately, there will be some members here who will think I have been unreasonable and as such won’t deal with me. I do however believe I have been more than reasonable, conducted the deal as a gentleman and gone above a beyond to sort the issue between the buyer and his friend.


I believe the buyer is the one that is not being reasonable here and hope not to deal with similar people in the future. I have made a few deals with members here and have only had positive experiences. I have even done a deal with a member from the US where he wired me over £20K and I travelled 100 miles to meet him after he flew to collect the watch. I have even posted parts to members here for free.


The biggest lesson here is deal with the third party directly. I assumed the buyer here on OF had the authority to conduct the deal but apparently not.
 
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When I got the package a few days after shipping I told the seller, that both bracelets were fine, what was correct. I did not check those end links, because I had no tool to check the size. The seller Jack knew, that this bracelet / end links was bought for a friend. I had to ship it to my friend Torsten. That took 2-3 more days and after 2-3 more days Torsten could check them and told me, they are not 18,33mm and they are slant wisely razed.

Before buying and shipping the seller sent me this photo and I believed those 18,28mm would be correct. But in truth it was only 17,7mm and slant wisely razed...





Because of this I would expect a return with no hassle among watch collectors. For sure it would have been my way and Torsten´s way too...


Actually I sent you two photos to show you they were not 19mm and your friend wouldn't be happy.
 
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There is obviously a language barrier problem here as I said "I don't know if this is a factory error as they were NOS" and this is true as I bought them from a retired Omega watchmaker along with a few other NOS parts.

You have instead translated what I have written as "I don't know if this is a factory error as they are NOS". If you thought you were buying a NOS pair of end links then this is down to your translation not my misrepresentation.

Just my view, but this distinction you are hanging onto amounts to weasel words in my books.

That, and the issue of the links appearing to be narrower than what you indicated, would to me say you should just do the refund, even though you warned the buyer that their friend wouldn't be happy.
 
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Let's have a better picture of the watch, clear shot of the dial needed. That will help clear things up.
 
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I’m not sure it’s fair to say the links are narrower than the seller said. One measured at one specific point using the blades of the caliper, the other across the sides of the ELs using the flat portion of the caliper. Also who’s to say if the buyer correctly zeroed it before measuring.
 
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I’m not sure it’s fair to say the links are narrower than the seller said. One measured at one specific point using the blades of the caliper, the other across the sides of the ELs using the flat portion of the caliper. Also who’s to say if the buyer correctly zeroed it before measuring.

Agreed, I have the same calipers and they need resetting after almost every measurement
 
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I’m not sure it’s fair to say the links are narrower than the seller said. One measured at one specific point using the blades of the caliper, the other across the sides of the ELs using the flat portion of the caliper. Also who’s to say if the buyer correctly zeroed it before measuring.

I said "appears"...but you seem to give the benefit of the doubt to the seller here, which is fine. But if any calipers needed to be "zeroed" before use, it would be the digital calipers of the seller, not the mechanical calipers of the buyer.

I've had the same set of dial calipers since about 1978, and they don't need to be "zeroed" before each use...
 
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That's right, the mechanical caliper of my friend Torsten, who is a rolex watchmaker is calibrated.
The seller Jack lowered the price and that's the reason why Torsten bought the bracelet with those endlinks.
He was willing to accept 18,33mm instead of 19mm, what is not such big difference of 0,67mm.

But 17,7mm to 19mm is 1,3mm and that is double the difference and too much in the end, what can be clearly seen on the pics of the watch above.In the end the sellers information was wrong. He gave the impression that there is only a little difference and he reinforced this impression by saying "those end links were NOS".

So it's very sad, that he refused a return even if Torsten told him, he pays for shipping and accepts to get back 150 EUR less.
 
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I said "appears"...but you seem to give the benefit of the doubt to the seller here, which is fine. But if any calipers needed to be "zeroed" before use, it would be the digital calipers of the seller, not the mechanical calipers of the buyer.

I've had the same set of dial calipers since about 1978, and they don't need to be "zeroed" before each use...
I didn’t mean to give the seller the benefit specifically, but thought that if the seller didn’t zero he’d have started with a negative value which would mean his 18.xx measurements were under the actual width rather than over. I think looking at the shape of the links and the fact they might be bent in at the tips, that both measurements might be about right. Certainly links tend to be widest at the fold, and narrower at the curved end.
 
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That's right, the mechanical caliper of my friend Torsten, who is a rolex watchmaker is calibrated.
The seller Jack lowered the price and that's the reason why Torsten bought the bracelet with those endlinks.
He was willing to accept 18,33mm instead of 19mm, what is not such big difference of 0,67mm.

But 17,7mm to 19mm is 1,3mm and that is double the difference and too much in the end, what can be clearly seen on the pics of the watch above.In the end the sellers information was wrong. He gave the impression that there is only a little difference and he reinforced this impression by saying "those end links were NOS".

So it's very sad, that he refused a return even if Torsten told him, he pays for shipping and accepts to get back 150 EUR less.
Purely out of interest, can Torsten measure in the same way as the seller (using the flats, so essentially measuring the link at the widest point). In the sellers photo you can even see there “may” be a gap between the top of the links and the flats of his calipers.
 
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I’m looking at your photos, and whilst those endlinks are wrong and should (edit: not) be refunded, as someone has clearly modified them (edit: but it appears the seller was upfront), what grabbed my eye was the following in your picture:



Shiny grey metallic-looking short indices non-professional. Someone clearly sold you a dud 😁 care to explain?

edit: didn’t see the slug-fest up above, but I leave my observation as I think it’s the most interesting...


@eugeneandresson :

This watch is 100% correct.
It’s a really rare Speedmaster with grey-blue sunburst dial from feb. 1967...

There is an extract of archives for this watch that confirms this dial.



Let's have a better picture of the watch, clear shot of the dial needed. That will help clear things up.




I don´t have further pics now, because it's Torstens watch, but this extract of archives should remove all doubts...



 
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I don´t have further pics now, because it's Torstens watch, but this extract of archives should remove all doubts...

What you are not seeing is the <Sarcasm>...</Sarcasm> html markers...for some reason they don't show up in OF 😗
 
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Sorry, but what do you mean ?

They want to see pictures of the blue dial 105003 - they know it is authentic but this forum feeds on pictures, so they are indirectly teasing them out of you 😁
 
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To point out that it is not about the money, my friend Torsten offers the seller Jack herewith a return and he pays for the shipping and accepts to get back 250 GBP less. That means he wants to get back only 1300 GBP for the bracelet and end links (he paid 1550 GBP).

In my view this is a really good chance for the seller to end this unsightly situation...
 
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No reaction ? I increase to 300 GBP less....

The bracelet is really good, but the end links...🙁

Maybe anybody here has a nice pair of 506 end links for my friend Torsten ?