506 end links - NOS or bad ??

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ex-rolex

·Jan 26, 2021

Hi Guys, I would like to have your opinion to these endlinks. I bought them for a friend together with a 1035 bracelet for 1550 GBP from a member of this forum.

Before shipping, the member told me, that he noticed, those endlinks were not 19mm, but closer to 18mm.
He did not know why, cause they were NOS.
That's the message:

He told me by direct message that they were 18,28mm and 18,33mm.

After he lowered the price from 1800 GBP to 1550 GBP my friend decided to take them.

A few days after they arrived, my friend Torsten had to notice, that they were only 17,7mm and 17,8mm. Furthermore those end links were poor razed slant-wisely... :-((
Please watch those pics.

Unfortunately in the end the seller refused a return, even if my friend Torsten offered him to pay for the return and to accept to get back only 1400 GBP.

What do you think ? In my opinion those endlinks are far away from NOS and a serious collector / seller should accept a return ??

 

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ndgal

·Jan 26, 2021

If NOS = Not Original Spec, then the seller is right. They are NOS...

 

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Marsimaxam

·Jan 26, 2021

Yes, the seller should definitely take the end pieces back and refund the money. However, what recourse do you have if bought in a private transaction, except the integrity and honesty of the seller?


That being said... Is this the other side of this?

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ple...a-transaction-turned-bad.124372/#post-1675185

If so, then, if I am to believe what the seller wrote, and I am inclined to do so after re-reading the thread, you as the buyer were warned that the end pieces were the incorrect size and you purchased the items anyways... this is on the buyer, sorry as regardless of whether 17.7 or 18.28mm it wasn't going to fit properly.

Edited: Jan 26, 2021

 

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Toishome

·Jan 26, 2021

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong if i was the seller i would take them back just to save myself all this aggravation and drama that has been going on now for a while regarding these end links 🤦

 

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Davidt

·Jan 26, 2021

Is this the other side of this?

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ple...a-transaction-turned-bad.124372/#post-1675185

 

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SkunkPrince

·Jan 26, 2021

If you flatten those links they might fit a lot better. Flat-link bracelet after all.

 

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bags1971

·Jan 26, 2021

Gotta agree with the seller here he told you your friend wouldn’t be happy but you went ahead anyway you knew the risk

 

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new_heuer

·Jan 26, 2021

Here we go again! I didn't sell these to you as NOS I mentioned that they were NOS as that is how they were sold to me. I bought these from a retired watchmaker at a watch fair in London around 6 years ago and I also informed you I have been using them. If you believe that they were sold to you as NOS end links then you have miss translated what I have written.

I measured them and found them not to be 19mm and informed you that your friend won't be happy and please don't pay. I didn't provide a precise measurement and assumed you would back out of the deal. You decided to negotiate a discount on the end links even though I had informed you he would be happy.

I sent you the bracelets and you confirmed they were both really good and in better condition than described. Up to this point I had kept the funds from the sale incase you were not happy as I had thought.

Two weeks later you message me saying your friend isn't happy! We agree I would send you a pair of 18mm end links. Two weeks after the 18mm end links arrive you say your friend isn't happy still.

At the end of the day the end links were sold to you on the basis that I told you your friend wouldn't be happy and he isn't. I haven't tried to misdescribe anything to make a sale.

 

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ex-rolex

·Jan 26, 2021

Jack, your wording was: I don´t know, if this was a factory error, as they were NOS

You held them in your hands could check them and really thought they were NOS ??

Torsten decided to take them after you lowered the price and after you told me, they were 18,28mm and 18,33mm (what was not true). You further did not mention, they were slant wisely razed. In this condition those endlinks are useless and far away from NOS.

After I reclaimed, you told me that you have another pair of 18mm end links. So I agreed to get this other pair. Of course I thought you will send another pair of 506 end links. What else ? But you sent instead a pair of 630 end links !!! I sent the package to Torsten, after I got it. He checked it and told me those endlinke were 630 what I reclaimed immediately and not after 2 weeks.

Sorry, but when you tell a buyer, those 506 end links could be a factory error, because they "were NOS" is a very bad style.
Yes, they were NOS, maybe many years ago, when they left the factory and before they were razed so poor slant wisely.

It´s for sure not about the money. It´s about how to behave towards other collector friends.

Whenever I sell a watch part and when the buyer is not lucky, I refund with no reason. Torsten does it the same way.

He even offered you to get 150 GBP back less and to pay for the shipping....

 

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Davidt

·Jan 26, 2021

So the seller said, "the links aren't 19mm they're more like 18mm. Don't buy them your friend won't be happy".

You bought them anyway and the endlinks are 17.7 and 17.8mm and your friend isn't happy.

Sounds like everything's perfectly as described!

 

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new_heuer

·Jan 26, 2021

There is obviously a language barrier problem here as I said "I don't know if this is a factory error as they were NOS" and this is true as I bought them from a retired Omega watchmaker along with a few other NOS parts.

You have instead translated what I have written as "I don't know if this is a factory error as they are NOS". If you thought you were buying a NOS pair of end links then this is down to your translation not my misrepresentation.

The photo provided to you using callipers was to show you they were not 19mm and to tell you that your friend wouldn't be happy.

I must apologise for my error in my last message as you are correct you let me know 1 week after receiving the additional (18mm) end links that you were not happy not 2 as I mentioned. You did however take two weeks to initially tell me your friend wasn't happy with the original end links.

To answer this "Whenever I sell a watch part and when the buyer is not lucky, I refund with no reason. Torsten does it the same way." I am also the same way and will do whatever is reasonable to make sure a fellow collector is treated fairly and with respect (this goes both ways). I waited till you confirmed that you were happy with the bracelets. Coming back to someone two weeks after is not OK especially as you had confirmed the bracelets were in better condition than described.

 

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michael e

·Jan 26, 2021

The £300 discount might pay for laser welding to make these right?
Just a thought.

 

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Davidt

·Jan 26, 2021

Got to say, I don’t think the seller has done anything wrong here. My interpretation is he’s saying ‘I’ve no idea how or why they are 18mm rather than 19mm as I bought them as NOS 6 years ago, but they’ve been in use since then’.

I think the buyer has to take responsibility for being very naive, buying parts without pictures after the seller advised “I don’t think your friend will be happy with these” and then confirming with the seller that everything was fine.
Why didn’t the buyer say, my bracelet is fine but I haven’t heard from my friend yet?!

In all honesty, if I was the seller, I’d do the return anyway as I can’t be arsed with the hassle. But i don’t think he’s under any moral obligation to do so, especially if he he’s the funds for a week until you confirmed you were satisfied and subsequently spent them.

 

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ex-rolex

·Jan 26, 2021

When I got the package a few days after shipping I told the seller, that both bracelets were fine, what was correct. I did not check those end links, because I had no tool to check the size. The seller Jack knew, that this bracelet / end links was bought for a friend. I had to ship it to my friend Torsten. That took 2-3 more days and after 2-3 more days Torsten could check them and told me, they are not 18,33mm and they are slant wisely razed.

Before buying and shipping the seller sent me this photo and I believed those 18,28mm would be correct. But in truth it was only 17,7mm and slant wisely razed...

Because of this I would expect a return with no hassle among watch collectors. For sure it would have been my way and Torsten´s way too...

 

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Zapatta

·Jan 26, 2021

🍿

 

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eugeneandresson

·Jan 26, 2021

I’m looking at your photos, and whilst those endlinks are wrong and should (edit: not) be refunded, as someone has clearly modified them (edit: but it appears the seller was upfront), what grabbed my eye was the following in your picture:

Shiny grey metallic-looking short indices non-professional. Someone clearly sold you a dud 😁 care to explain?

edit: didn’t see the slug-fest up above, but I leave my observation as I think it’s the most interesting...

Edited: Jan 27, 2021

 

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Engee

·Jan 26, 2021

My 6d worth...

I don't think the seller could have made it any clearer that the items were not going to meet the end user's needs. He even offered photographs which were turned down. A pretty long period between receipt and complaint, including the lodging of positive feedback. The buyer is behaving very inconsistently and unreasonably.

and...

I see no reason why the seller should not accept the return, once satisfied that the items are returned in the same condition as when sold, having made £150 on the failed transaction, and the buyer is bearing all other costs.

unless...

The seller no longer has the cash to make a refund, in which case, it's a sad end to the story, but the onus is on the buyer, not the seller, and the buyer should sell the end links for whatever they can get for them.


Also, question for everyone...

Should OF be turned into a court of peer opinion to adjudicate on such disputes between members? I can see that both parties feel aggrieved but not sure that this linen should be laundered here, or maybe this is the perfect place to settle disputes if both parties agree to the overall opinion of the members?

Edited: Jan 26, 2021

 

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ex-rolex

·Jan 26, 2021

@eugeneandresson :

This watch is 100% correct.
It’s a really rare Speedmaster with grey-blue sunburst dial from feb. 1967...

There is an extract of archives for this watch that confirms this dial.

 

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MtV

·Jan 26, 2021

Engee

Also, question for everyone...

Should OF be turned into a court of peer opinion to adjudicate on such disputes between members? I can see that both parties feel aggrieved but not sure that this linen should be laundered here, or maybe this is the perfect place to settle disputes if both parties agree to the overall opinion of the members?

While I think everything has been said regarding this specific case, I don’t mind those posts, quite the contrary. It tells you something about both seller and buyer and even though both parties are unhappy with what’s been happening, I feel like there’s something to learn for others, too. I know how I want to behave in deals here and the response from some of you is a feedback I find interesting. Just my 2 cents, I don’t think debates like this don’t have a place here. This forum has a marketplace, why not discuss when a deal goes south.

 

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harrymai86

·Jan 26, 2021

Any clear evidence of shaving down on those 506s?