Anyone know how many of these were produced?

Based on sales records on the internet for watches that I can confirm through pictures of the movement were 861/18, I find the the s/n's in the range 483298xx - 483529xx (or possibly as high as 483531xx). The years seem to be only 1996 and 1997 although Omega says the 861/18 was produced starting in 1993 (https://www.omegawatches.com/planet-omega/heritage/vintage-details/14508/). Based on the s/n's I would "guesstimate" less than 200 made.

 

Calibre 861 has been 18 jewels since 1993. MWO verifies this.

Edit: this would be more appropriate for the vintage Omega forum, not modern.

 

Thanks. I posted it both places since I wasn't sure what is considered "vintage."

I have searched a lot of sales data and have never found a 3590.50 with 18 jewels and a date lower than 1996. I wonder if 18 jewel movements were only used in special editions with other PIC codes?

I'm a NOOB, what's MWO?

 

Any specific reason why this matters to you? Are you trying to date a watch or do you think the 18 is significantly better in some way.

It was a change to the movement that happened at one point and all watches post have the change. Also other watches that used the same movement got the change like the Sinn 903.

 

At first I was more interested in the possible scarcity; the s/n's I found were in a relatively narrow range. I also found the inconsistency between when it was supposedly produced and the actual (claimed) dates of watches I found. Granted, the data is a small sample compared to the number produced but isn't it curious that there are no 861/18's before 1996 if they were made starting in 1993? Maybe they were limited to other PIC codes before 1996?

 

Are you identifying them by the label on the bridge or by the movement itself. It was my understanding that they where still labeled 17 when they had 18 jewels for awhile.

 

Moonwatch Only, the Speedmaster Bible.

 

18th jewel is in the coupling yoke...so this is an example of one shown as 17, when it actually has 18:

 

A meaningful change, to your way of thinking?

 

No. I can only believe this was purely cosmetic or marketing driven. Sure, the wheel in the coupling yoke is turning all the time, so the old bushing could wear, but then why only change one of the two bushings for this wheel to a jewel, and only the one that's visible? Not for technical reasons, that's for sure...

 

Thanks, Al. Do manual-wind watches ever boast a jewel count over 18? Or put another way, why not create the movement with all jewels where the bushings would go? Is it that much more expensive?

 

I think Foo2rama hit the nail on the head! I was going by what it said on the bridge. Looking back over the pictures of movements I found some that were marked as 17 on the bridge but appeared to have the 18th jewel: a 1995, a 1994 and three 1993's all had the 18th jewel but were marked 17 on the bridge. So it would appear that the 18th jewel was used beginning 1993. However it appeared one of the 1992's also had and 18th jewel (the s/n is in the 1992 range) but it's not that easy to tell for sure from the picture.

So now it would appear that they didn't label the 18 jewel movements until 1996. Thanks Foo2rama.

The serial number range for 96's and 97's is still narrow so 861 movements that are marked 18 jewels still might qualify as limited production. I guess only Omega would know for sure.

 

Uhhh yep - this vintage Hamilton is 945 is 23 jewels...



My GO's Cal. 65 has 48 jewels...



Lot's of manual winding watches have more than 17 jewels, even if they aren't chronographs. 7 jewels are taken up by the balance and pallet fork typically, so you don't even get to the train wheels until you get to 8 jewels.

I can't say what the reasons are, but there are jewels where they really don't need them (minute recorder for example that ticks 1/30th of a turn once per minute when the chronograph is running) and have nothing where they could use jewels or even bushings (barrel arbor holes in the hour recorder bridge and main wheel train/barrel bridge, that I often have to install bushings in due to wear). Sometimes the descisions don't seem to be based on typical wear patterns.

But in terms of costs I can't tell you what Omega pays for a bushing or a jewel, but if I buy them they are both the same amount. So if I buy a bushing or jewel from Omega, it's $7 for either.

Cheers, Al