Community Stories

321 owners: How is crown winding compared to 3861 or Rolex?

omega rolex
T
Posts
78
Likes
19
I’m considering the Speedmaster 321 and would love some real world feedback from owners regarding the daily crown winding experience.


My reference points:

Rolex Submariner (modern reference): I really enjoy the tactile interaction of a Rolex crown, such as the heavy mechanical "pop" when it disengages, and that crisp, substantial, ratcheting crank when winding it. It feels good and makes a great sound.


Speedmaster 3861 (Hesalite): I tried winding a 3861 recently and was surprisingly turned off by the crown ergonomics. Because of the asymmetric case and built-in crown guards (I’m aware the 321 doesn’t have crown guard), I couldn't get a proper pinch grip on the crown. Rolling it from underneath with the side of my thumb felt stiff, friction-heavy, and awkward against the steel case shoulders.


My questions:

Ergonomics & Grip: How much of a difference does the straight-lug case with zero crown guards make for daily hand-winding?

Tactile Feedback & Sound: How would you describe the sound and sensation of the 321's crown turn? Is it a heavy ratchet, a soft mechanical hum, or a tight click? How does it compare to the industrial click of a 3861 or the heavy feel of a Rolex?

Thanks!
 
gbesq
Posts
10,057
Likes
57,270
If you were turned off by the Speedmaster 3861 crown ergonomics, I’d suggest that you avoid the crown on a vintage pie pan Constellation:
IMG_1351.webp

That being said, the Speedmaster - whether 321, 861, or 3861 - is a spectacular watch and has been since the late 1950’s.
Edited:
 
amuscare87
Posts
292
Likes
399
gbesq gbesq
If you were turned off by the Speedmaster 3861 crown ergonomics, I’d suggest that you avoid the crown on a vintage pie pan Constellation:
IMG_1351.webp

That being said, the Speedmaster - whether 321, 861, or 3861 - is a spectacular watch and has been since the late 1950’s.
Probably the best looking crown with the worst functionality
 
gbesq
Posts
10,057
Likes
57,270
amuscare87 amuscare87
Probably the best looking crown with the worst functionality
Yep. And I’ll never sell my pie pan Connie’s.
 
Tag0935
Posts
352
Likes
514
I have a modern Globemaster and while the movement is different, the case is similar to the 321 and winding it is a day/night experience compared to my Speedy professional. The crown guards are PITA.
 
M'Bob
Posts
7,305
Likes
23,666
The wind on the new 321 is actually fairly stiff compared to the vintage models, apparently due to a design change. Rumor has it it loosens up a bit over time.
 
Archer
Posts
30,161
Likes
77,884
M'Bob M'Bob
The wind on the new 321 is actually fairly stiff compared to the vintage models, apparently due to a design change. Rumor has it it loosens up a bit over time.
The crown and case tube system are completely different on the new 321.
 
bsowers34
Posts
2,340
Likes
11,023
No 321 (yet), but I wind my 3861s with a bergeon 31409 tool which makes it way easier.
 
T
Posts
78
Likes
19
bsowers34 bsowers34
No 321 (yet), but I wind my 3861s with a bergeon 31409 tool which makes it way easier.
I’ve seen that as a solution by many people, but that’s disappointing since it’s a manual wind. I don’t even have bear like paws, it’s just hard to grip.

My Rolex submariner has a nice spring loaded pop when you open it. Than a nice ratching sound when being cranked.
 
bsowers34
Posts
2,340
Likes
11,023
T TradeWinds577
I’ve seen that as a solution by many people, but that’s disappointing since it’s a manual wind. I don’t even have bear like paws, it’s just hard to grip.

My Rolex submariner has a nice spring loaded pop when you open it. Than a nice ratching sound when being cranked.
I use it because I wind all 4 at the same time.
 
Evitzee
Posts
7,767
Likes
14,352
Have had an Ed White 321 since March 2022, incredibly easy to wind, much easier than an 861, 1861 or 3861. They all vary to some extent but my 321 is smooth as silk.
 
B
Posts
91
Likes
135
Slightly off topic but I got to examine my buddies modern 321 a few days ago. Uh oh……I think my wallet is in trouble again. Stunning watch and the movement is spectacular.
 
T
Posts
78
Likes
19
B Bonk
Slightly off topic but I got to examine my buddies modern 321 a few days ago. Uh oh……I think my wallet is in trouble again. Stunning watch and the movement is spectacular.
Do you have a 3861? What was it that you liked about it?
 
B
Posts
91
Likes
135
T TradeWinds577
Do you have a 3861? What was it that you liked about it?
I do have a 3861. Hesalite on deployant strap. Excellent watch.

I like the Ed White because of it’s relative scarcity and the movement. I readily acknowledge it’s essentially just another Speedmaster and doesn’t do anything better than my 3861 but we like watches for reasons completely absent most rationale. I have two Speedys and until I saw the Ed White in person I wasn’t interested in obtaining another one. I have the aforementioned 3861 and a Speedmaster Racing.

I’m interested in a couple of other watches at the moment otherwise I’d consider pursuing a 321. A Rolex OP and a GMT Master are my current watch goals. I have a good relationship with my AD so I fully expect to get ‘the call’ on both of them in the next few months.
 
B
Posts
91
Likes
135
T TradeWinds577
Do you have a 3861? What was it that you liked about it?
Sorry, I misunderstood the question. I thought you were asking what I liked about the Ed White.

I like my 3861 Hesalite Speedmaster on the strap because it’s a modern recreation of the OG that still honors as much as possible the original watch. No, it’s not a perfect match but it’s pretty darn close. I’m of the opinion that usually simple is best so IMO my choice of a Speedmaster is probably the best place to start a Speedmaster collection.

As we all know there are dozens of modern takes on the Speedmaster. Some I like, some I don’t. I specifically chose the orange Racing version because in some ways it’s the opposite end of the Speedmaster universe from a basic 3861. It has color, only two sub-dials and it’s an automatic watch. Nothing in between tickles my fancy until I got to see an Ed White in person. We’ll see….
 
T
Posts
78
Likes
19
B Bonk
Sorry, I misunderstood the question. I thought you were asking what I liked about the Ed White.

I like my 3861 Hesalite Speedmaster on the strap because it’s a modern recreation of the OG that still honors as much as possible the original watch. No, it’s not a perfect match but it’s pretty darn close. I’m of the opinion that usually simple is best so IMO my choice of a Speedmaster is probably the best place to start a Speedmaster collection.

As we all know there are dozens of modern takes on the Speedmaster. Some I like, some I don’t. I specifically chose the orange Racing version because in some ways it’s the opposite end of the Speedmaster universe from a basic 3861. It has color, only two sub-dials and it’s an automatic watch. Nothing in between tickles my fancy until I got to see an Ed White in person. We’ll see….
Thanks for the response. I have a modern Rolex submariner, Starbucks (green bezel). But I’ve always pined for a Speedmaster, it’s not a replacement for the luxury and visual impact the Rolex has. I’m not a loud person so my Rolex is usually only worn on long sleeves because of that reason but I do recognize its quality from the fantastic spring pop when pulling out the crown, to the beautiful feel of winding it, to the super ink black dial. However, I’m not crazy about metal bracelets and it’s heavy.

The Speedmaster I’ve tested is the 3861 in black sail cloth and it felt very comfortable. The winding wasn’t pleasant because of the crown guard. I’ve only seen the 321 Ed White once and it wasn’t next to a 3861. I remember thinking they were similar but the 321 seemed like an evolved luxury upgrade almost akin to the 1990s submariner to a 2010s submariner. The 321 dial seems less busy than the 3861 in pictures, because the white is slightly less intense making the subdials clutter more in the 3861. I prefer the straight lugs of the 321 as they read more modern, while inside it holds the movement of the first USA EVA and the last watch on the moon. Sacrilegious to say but accuracy is overrated.

What is it that made you like the 321?
 
AHW
Posts
178
Likes
194
This doesn’t answer you question, but my personal take is if the 321 movement and history is important to you (which it is to me) then you should get a 105.003. Then you own a piece of an incredible history, rather than a modern watch that takes inspiration from the original, and it can still be worn safely with sensible precautions. Although I understand the appeal of a modern watch.

If you want to experience top tier build quality and complications then I would argue there are better options in the price range of a modern 321.

If I was in your position I would either get the vintage Speedmaster or this ~20 year old perpetual calendar JLC.

IMG_2530.webp
 
T
Posts
78
Likes
19
AHW AHW
This doesn’t answer you question, but my personal take is if the 321 movement and history is important to you (which it is to me) then you should get a 105.003. Then you own a piece of an incredible history, rather than a modern watch that takes inspiration from the original, and it can still be worn safely with sensible precautions. Although I understand the appeal of a modern watch.

If you want to experience top tier build quality and complications then I would argue there are better options in the price range of a modern 321.

If I was in your position I would either get the vintage Speedmaster or this ~I couldn’t tell you what caliber my submariner has nor do I have an interest.

AHW AHW
This doesn’t answer you question, but my personal take is if the 321 movement and history is important to you (which it is to me) then you should get a 105.003. Then you own a piece of an incredible history, rather than a modern watch that takes inspiration from the original, and it can still be worn safely with sensible precautions. Although I understand the appeal of a modern watch.

If you want to experience top tier build quality and complications then I would argue there are better options in the price range of a modern 321.

If I was in your position I would either get the vintage Speedmaster or this ~20 year old perpetual calendar JLC.

IMG_2530.webp
JLC have never clicked for me. I have a modern Rolex submariner and I couldn’t care less about what caliber it has or any specs, it just works. But I find myself researching for hours about the differences between the various EVA and moon watches, I actually know one has a 321 (Eva/moon) & straight lugs (1st USA EVA & last moon with Cernan) vs a white dial has a 3861(even its predecessors 1861 & 861 were never on moon) but twisted lugs were on most of the moon watches.
 
AHW
Posts
178
Likes
194
T TradeWinds577
JLC have never clicked for me. I have a modern Rolex submariner and I couldn’t care less about what caliber it has or any specs, it just works. But I find myself researching for hours about the differences between the various EVA and moon watches, I actually know one has a 321 (Eva/moon) & straight lugs (1st USA EVA & last moon with Cernan) vs a white dial has a 3861(even its predecessors 1861 & 861 were never on moon) but twisted lugs were on most of the moon watches.
That is completely fair. A vintage Speedmaster is still my grail watch. Either a 105.003 or 105.012-65. On balance
I think the 105.003 has the most interesting story and some of the most iconic images. It is also a good reminder of Ed White. There is an extremely sad photo of his burnt Speedmaster following the fire that killed him in Apollo 1.

If you want to get more inspired towards purchasing a vintage Speedmaster you should buy a few books:

Apollo Remastered - Incredible photos and interesting text on all the Apollo missions. Includes some shots of Speedmasters, in particular Ed White on his EVA, and of course Apollo 11 and 13.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0762480246?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

Apollo 1 in Photographs (and all following missions) - many photos I have not seen before and gives a really good insight into the build up to the mission. Quite a few Speedmaster shots including Ed White’s after the fire. Really sad overall, but an important part of space history.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/076437009X?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

And Moonwatch Only if you don’t have it already!
 
Spanakopita
Posts
222
Likes
1,587
gbesq gbesq
If you were turned off by the Speedmaster 3861 crown ergonomics, I’d suggest that you avoid the crown on a vintage pie pan Constellation:
IMG_1351.webp

That being said, the Speedmaster - whether 321, 861, or 3861 - is a spectacular watch and has been since the late 1950’s.
I'll second that! The pie pan Constellation is my only watch that the seller included a winder tool.
 
12 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...