Hi OF's and hope you are all well!

I have come across this pie-pan constellation which may be of interest for me to purchase but I need your advice/opinions on whether it is a good purchase or not.

It is a 1964 ref. 168.004 cal. 561 with hidden crown and serial number 21290744 (21 millon range).

Everything looks original including dial, case, caseback, movement and crown.

My main concern is about condition and whether the asking price of $1185 is appropriate.
The seller is a dealer so the price is to be expected but the dealer would allow me to trade-in my Tag Heuer Formula 1 as part exchange which would reduce the asking price for the constellation to about $900. I would rather have a vintage constellation than a Tag anyday!

My own evaluation of condition is:

Dial: Looks like an original dial with no signs of finishing.

Some dirt (patina) adding weight to it not being re-finished.

The dial scripts are fine, the pie-pan facets and the crosshairs are correct. The hands are correct with lume and the hour markers have recesses where lume should be.

The date surround facets/chamfers are correct.

The T SWISS MADE T is present but it appears to be lower on the dial than it should. The only explanation I have is it is do with the crystal being an aftermarket replacement.



Case and crown: Does not look polished but is quite worn (lots of scratches on lugs)

Medallion is okay but there are some scratches on the case back

Crown original. Is that corrosion on the case near the crown or dirt?

Inside case-back: Original with correct ref. stamp. No signs of rotor rub.

Movement : Correct cal. number and serial for this case and dial

Movement a bit dirty and old looking (it may the light). Can be sorted out with servicing?


Is there anything I have missed?
Sorry about some bad photos but incoming from seller.

Your advice /opinions are most welcome!
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Interesting that they took so many pics, yet the inside of the caseback photo is only a small portion so you cannot see the ring likely created by the rotor rubbing on it (look at the rotor -- you can see it has been in contact a lot). So definitely factor in a service ASAP. I would want to see a higher-res photo of the dial, and some of the lugs (they look 'soft' to me in these pics). Lume on the hands looks odd in some of the pics, but due to the lighting a low res it's hard to tell much. Also agree that something seems off with the crystal (or something else) as the outside it intrudes a bit more onto the dial than normal, and there is enough of a gap on the outside that it looks a bezel is missing (which is not the case).

To me, there are better examples in the $1,200 - $1,400 range.

 

Thanks for your opinions!

Sorry I forgot to add a pic of the full case-back.

This dealer provides such bad pictures!!!
back. Does it look like there is rotor rub?

Would this be a bad acquisition if I just took it for a good service?

 

I think your assessment is pretty much spot on. The crown is a replacement though, as it should be completely hidden when pushed in. That is not necessarily a big minus as the smaller crown makes it a pig to set. And to that the fact that there isn't a quick-set date...

I would - as @BlackTalon states - say that the price is fairly optimistic, but as you say it is with a dealer which explains it.

However...

You seem to have this reference sussed pretty well, so what is stopping you finding one sold privately? There is nothing on this specimen that makes it stand out from other .004s, so given that you're good at assessing them, why not find one in better condition at the same (or lower) price or one in similar condition a good deal cheaper? I don't see what the dealer premium covers here.

 

Thanks for your valuable opinion!!

I don't see these references come around on private sales in my neck of the wood often and if they did the price would probably be unaffordable!

I don't mind paying the dealer premium actually if it is a "workable" specimen that I can get serviced and wear!!

Do .004s come up often on OF?

 

No, I wouldn't say that they come up "often", but from time to time yes.

If you need one now, you are naturally limited by what is for sale at the moment, otherwise I would set up search agents on eBay and keep my eyes open.

Here's what $1400 or so and a lot of patience bought me:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgY9jiRAXbw/?igshid=5c2ypgbclyws

 

I just noticed that one of the clamps on the movement near the bridge showing the cal number and serial number is missing! see photos of movement

If I was to purchase this watch I would have to get the clamp replaced and also get the correct size crystal installed to sort out the problem of the gap between dial and bezel.

Could a watchmaker do all this during the service and how much extra cost would that be?
I am interested in acquiring this watch but need to have my eyes open about the service costs to get it properly fixed.

Thank you and hoping to get some further replies!

 

Leave it.

There shouldn't be these sort of issues on a watch bought at a dealer! I will repeat my previous "I do not see what the dealer premium covers here".

 

Thanks ConElPueblo. You are absolutely right! I will keep looking.