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1963 or 64 Speedmaster help

H
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Hi, my name is Dave, I have been recommended this forum for some help. I don't know much about watches and I have never really been a wearer. I was given my father in laws watch when he died 20 years ago, unfortunately at the time I just thought it was a piece of cheap rubbish (i didn't know what omega was). Anyway, last week my son asked if he could wear that old watch to his prom to which I said yes, the next day 2 men at work were talking watches and I happened to mention that I had an old watch and proceeded to tell them what was wrote on it, they were a little gobsmacked that I didnt know what a Speedmaster was but hey, if you know you know but if you dont you dont. I took it to a jewellers and to cut a long story short it has now been sent off to STS for a quote to service it. The help I need is knowing what to have serviced, what to have replaced without ruining the watch and keeping it as a collectable. I appreciate any help I can get please. Even just general advice on the watch would be helpful and many thanks in advance.

My son wont be wearing it to prom now I know what it is!
 
20230325_094144.jpg IMG-20230324-WA0014.jpg
gemini4
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Congrats.
I’ll wager that you are the proud owner of a Speedmaster reference 105.002-62.
A very limited production reference, circa 1963.
Here are a couple of more pristine examples.

PS. As you can see your watch, while worn, appears to contain many original components.
The bracelet is not original.

2E95CD93-71E9-4127-B75C-682D30728371.jpeg
Edited:
 
H
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Hi Gemini, while very early days for me as a Speedmaster owner I assure you the reference number means nothing to me but i do plan to learn. Could I ask, do i have any cosmetic work done or just leave it as it is and have the full movement serviced?
 
140dave
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H heller792
Hi Gemini, while very early days for me as a Speedmaster owner I assure you the reference number means nothing to me but i do plan to learn. Could I ask, do i have any cosmetic work done or just leave it as it is and have the full movement serviced?
I would do no cosmetic work personally. Just clean and service the movement and keep the rest original.

IF I wanted any cosmetic it would be to the chrono hand which could have the paint and lume touched up, or replace with a period correct one in better shape. But I don’t think I would, it is tough to get it to look right after such a swap.
 
Davidt
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I’m guessing you’re in the UK if it’s going to STS, but then again you’re calling it ‘prom’?

If it’s the STS I’m familiar with in the UK they’re sympathetic to vintage. My advice would be to ask for the following.

- Ultrasonic clean of case but no polishing.
- Full movement service.
- No work to hands or dial*
- We can’t confirm whether your crown and pushers are original but if they are I’d leave them as is as well.

* there is occasionally an argument for repainting hands etc but in your case, repainted and relumed hands would contrast so starkly with the natural patina and age on the dial that I don’t feel it’s the right option in this case. The only caveat being the at it looks like some lume has already fallen out of the chrono hand. As a result STS may want to replace it to offer their warranty. I’d have a discussion with them if this is the case. My order of preference would be 1) leave as is but perhaps stabilise the lume, 2) repaint and relume existing hand if it can’t be stabilised, but colour match to dial and other hands, 3) replace with service hand but have it colour matched.
 
Davidt
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Also, the above is my advice if you’re keeping it.

If you’re considering selling it, don’t have any work done and sell as is.
 
H
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140dave 140dave
I would do no cosmetic work personally. Just clean and service the movement and keep the rest original.

IF I wanted any cosmetic it would be to the chrono hand which could have the paint and lume touched up, or replace with a period correct one in better shape. But I don’t think I would, it is tough to get it to look right after such a swap.

Thanks Dave, this is a steep learning curve.
 
H
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Davidt Davidt
I’m guessing you’re in the UK if it’s going to STS, but then again you’re calling it ‘prom’?

If it’s the STS I’m familiar with in the UK they’re sympathetic to vintage. My advice would be to ask for the following.

- Ultrasonic clean of case but no polishing.
- Full movement service.
- No work to hands or dial*
- We can’t confirm whether your crown and pushers are original but if they are I’d leave them as is as well.

* there is occasionally an argument for repainting hands etc but in your case, repainted and relumed hands would contrast so starkly with the natural patina and age on the dial that I don’t feel it’s the right option in this case. The only caveat being the at it looks like some lume has already fallen out of the chrono hand. As a result STS may want to replace it to offer their warranty. I’d have a discussion with them if this is the case. My order of preference would be 1) leave as is but perhaps stabilise the lume, 2) repaint and relume existing hand if it can’t be stabilised, but colour match to dial and other hands, 3) replace with service hand but have it colour matched.

Thanks David, yeah I'm in the UK, prom has caught on over here for the last few years with all the high schools having one. I will use your list when I speak to STS, just waiting for the quote, when I have the quote I will stick it on here for advice prior to having any work done.
 
Davidt
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I think it’s Kieran who is the service manager now? A lady called Linda tends to reply to emails but if you have specific queries etc she’s usually happy to speak to various specialists to agree the way forward.
 
watchyouwant
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Good advice above. Movement: yes, a service. Case: leave as is, just clean the dirt and grime. Dial and hands: if possible, don't let them touch them. If they can, have them stabilize the existing Lume from behind, but keep the Lume. It blends perfectly in with the rest . Everything, that looks like new, destroy's the value for a collector later.
Crystal: keep the one and have it polished. For the time being: tell them to keep the crown and pushers as is. If they offer to replace the rubber seals inside the existing crown and pushers: yes. Otherwise, keep as is. And then : Wear it. Often. That's what they are made for. If you keep it, ask your content insurance to add it with pictures for a replacement value of $ 20.000.
 
H
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watchyouwant watchyouwant
Good advice above. Movement: yes, a service. Case: leave as is, just clean the dirt and grime. Dial and hands: if possible, don't let them touch them. If they can, have them stabilize the existing Lume from behind, but keep the Lume. It blends perfectly in with the rest . Everything, that looks like new, destroy's the value for a collector later.
Crystal: keep the one and have it polished. For the time being: tell them to keep the crown and pushers as is. If they offer to replace the rubber seals inside the existing crown and pushers: yes. Otherwise, keep as is. And then : Wear it. Often. That's what they are made for. If you keep it, ask your content insurance to add it with pictures for a replacement value of $ 20.000.

Thanks for the information, I will do all of the above, like you said, the watch may look a bit gritty but I think that's part of its beauty and part of the way it was worn, my wife's dad wore it every day and he was in civils construction, cant believe he wore a watch like that to dig holes lol. He was the only owner of the watch from brand new, his 21st birthday was in 1964. I just dont know if it was ever serviced.
 
watchyouwant
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That thing made it to the Moon. Digging holes with a Speedmaster was not even part of the NASA testing. Maybe more challenging, if you use the Watch as the Spade.....
 
H
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On another note, I asked about how to obtain a certificate of authenticity to which i was told just to have it valued as that would show exactly what it is and what its worth, whats peoples thoughts?
 
Mark020
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Buy an extract of the archives. Valuations for insurance purposes don't add any value. For an indication of the value look at speedmaster101.com
 
mac_omega
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H heller792
On another note, I asked about how to obtain a certificate of authenticity to which i was told just to have it valued as that would show exactly what it is and what its worth, whats peoples thoughts?

Edit: Some members already posted while I was writing...

No need to do this - experts are resident on this forum!
Let STS take photos of the inner side of the caseback and the movement with serial# well readable - thats it. Resident experts will tell you what you need to know. Additionally you can order an EoA (extract of the archives) from Omega in Bienne/Switzerland which will give you proof of the reference, the date and country of delivery. A certificate of authenticity is a different thing though and costly. You do not need this.
 
hansaboy
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mac_omega mac_omega
Edit: Some members already posted while I was writing...

No need to do this - experts are resident on this forum!
Let STS take photos of the inner side of the caseback and the movement with serial# well readable - thats it. Resident experts will tell you what you need to know. Additionally you can order an EoA (extract of the archives) from Omega in Bienne/Switzerland which will give you proof of the reference, the date and country of delivery. A certificate of authenticity is a different thing though and costly. You do not need this.
hehehehe...

Chasing the keyboard?😀


Cheers!
 
H
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Hi, just a little update, I returned to the jewlers today to see if the watch was still with them as I wanted to get some more pictures, turns out it was dispatched to sts on Monday. However, the jewlers had taken about 40 pics of the watch which he showed me, in his opinion they are all original parts except the strap obviously. Here are some points raised,
1, He thinks the fingers wont be able to be saved (obviously he is not an expert and that was his opinion), there is a hole in the tachymeter finger.
2, The bezel has quite a dent in it, I like it and it tells the story of how the watch was used everyday while digging holes. The jewler said that sts may say that it must be replaced to warrently their work.
3, He said as standard sts will replace the crystal, is this true in everyones opinion.
4, STS will prob cost me between £1000 and £2000, could I ask if it was your find would you be willing to spend that kind of money on this watch please?

I am really excited about this and having watch become a wearable item again, what strap would you put with it? It has a smaller face than newer models so not sure the big metal strap would fit the or match the watch.

Many thanks,
Dave
 
Davidt
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Shame it’s gone as I assume the jeweller will charge an admin fee.m and you could have sent it direct to STS.

STS charge £550 for an 861 service, a 321 will be more (and actually may have to go to Switzerland now?).

Do not replace the bezel.
Try and not replace the hands.
Ask if the existing crystal can be polished and preserved but a replacement isn’t the end of the world.

In answer to your question, I wouldn’t spend £2k on a service as I think it can be done for around £500-800 depending on work/parts required.
 
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