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1963 Omega Constellation

T
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Guys
Hoping for some advice regarding the Omega Constellation below
https://www.instagram.com/p/CN-KOCgH3ww/
The seller, based in the UK, is an honest and open seller who has been very responsive and very knowledgeable. He deals almost exclusively in antique Omegas and clearly knows his stuff, something that attracted me.
The original advert stated the dial was flawless and the movement serviced in April 2021. However, it has been brought to my attention that there are some possible 'flaws' which may or may not be normal for a Constellation.
Broaching the subject with the seller he responded quickly and it appears the dial has been repainted which I wasn't originally aware of.
The cross hairs for example do not centrally dissect the Omega logo.
The Chronometer logo has an M that does not match the automatic M, which I understand is the correct style 'sloping' sides. Whether this is wrong or right I am not sure.
The Constellation Star is at an angle which I understood was a common issue and easily rectified.
I bought the watch as I loved the look and still do. It is likely I would never have realised these possible issues without the benefit of this forum.
I paid significantly over my budget based on the description and my gut feel with this seller - something I am still comfortable with.
However, I was interested in hearing thoughts on those with the expertise as we all wish to know future values are not affected by changes to originality which were not initially aware of.
I look forward to your comments
Russ
 
Peemacgee
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Hello @topfox59

could you post pics please. you’ll get a lot more comments if you do.
 
T
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Hi
Thanks for the quick response. They were in the link in the post, quite a few high image pictures from the Instagram account. Can you access them, if not I can post pics but not the same quality as on the link
 
Peemacgee
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T topfox59
Hi
Thanks for the quick response. They were in the link in the post, quite a few high image pictures from the Instagram account. Can you access them, if not I can post pics but not the same quality as on the link

some us ‘more mature types’ don’t have Instagram accounts 😉

Pics are preferred by most members. 👍
 
MtV
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Here are the pictures from the ad:

B1F668AB-142A-49A8-9F11-293D97AE038C.jpeg AA45DD97-1E25-4C24-8657-4C53C6D63443.jpeg 4487DE98-3FD4-42CB-B7B1-03A054A089F5.jpeg C07A57A2-BE10-4A33-AE9D-741F4EB9F457.jpeg 83AE4870-4427-4950-AA30-C7C44A2235A5.jpeg 8D01471C-C209-4968-A058-1B2D98378DDD.jpeg

I vote redial, I'm afraid. Missing sunburst finish, cross hair is off, ... And yes, a redial does affect value significantly. I'm not sure I got a 100% of what you said, "it appears the dial has been repainted" - has the seller pointed this out to you? It certainly should've been made clear in the ad. Does he accept a return? Since it's from a dealer (and at least sold as "serviced") I assume it wasn't cheap and you can expect the originality that you, apparently, were made to believe when you made the purchase.
And one more thing, but that’s subjective: The case has been polished so severely that the dogleg lugs are hardly recognizable. It’d be a clear pass for me for that reason alone as it’s one of the major design features of this ref.

Edit: Compare the lugs to this one (which also isn’t unpolished, but you can see the difference in sharpness)
78ABD0A5-80D1-4EDF-969A-4E13BC19DC92.jpeg 9E66326A-B702-4DC3-B4E2-6CC620F1E8E1.jpeg
Edited:
 
Puma_135o
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T topfox59
Hi
Thanks for the quick response. They were in the link in the post, quite a few high image pictures from the Instagram account. Can you access them, if not I can post pics but not the same quality as on the link

Hi, it's better you post the pics, this happens because if the link brokes for some reason, the pics remain. It's forum rules.
 
T
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Peemacgee Peemacgee
some us ‘more mature types’ don’t have Instagram accounts 😉

Pics are preferred by most members. 👍
Apologies but looks like MTV has kindly uploaded them
Russ
 
T
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MtV MtV
Here are the pictures from the ad:

B1F668AB-142A-49A8-9F11-293D97AE038C.jpeg AA45DD97-1E25-4C24-8657-4C53C6D63443.jpeg 4487DE98-3FD4-42CB-B7B1-03A054A089F5.jpeg C07A57A2-BE10-4A33-AE9D-741F4EB9F457.jpeg 83AE4870-4427-4950-AA30-C7C44A2235A5.jpeg 8D01471C-C209-4968-A058-1B2D98378DDD.jpeg

I vote redial, I'm afraid. Missing sunburst finish, cross hair is off. And yes, a redial does affect value significantly. I'm not sure I got a 100% of what you said, "it appears the dial has been repainted" - has the seller pointed this out to you? It certainly should've been made clear in the ad. Does he accept a return? Since it's from a dealer (and at least sold as "serviced") I assume it wasn't cheap and you can expect the originality that you, apparently, were made to believe when you made the purchase.
And one more thing, but that’s subjective: The case has been polished so severely that the dogleg lugs are hardly recognizable. It’d be a clear pass for me for that reason alone as it’s one of the major design features of this ref.
 
T
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Thank you for the comments.
Here is the original description
Seller is saying I can have an original dial/movement of the same era as this watch or to send the dial back to be restored again but wait 8 weeks.
The original dial to be swapped is a non cross hair type which is a pity as I particularly liked it.
 
A3520ECA-F311-4B13-9DDB-237FD6BBCB04.jpeg 35E3FB71-144B-411B-A248-40823BE0E8DD.jpeg E79229C1-A562-4C5B-90C6-F485E8AA33F8.jpeg
MtV
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May I ask what you paid and how the redial was disclosed in the end? The new dial looks nice (although the missing "officially certified" means it might be a 14902, not a 168.005 dial), and it you'll still have an aggressively polished case.

A return to get your money back isnt an option?

Edit: While they're certainly nice, this ref isn't too rare. You can easily find them with significantly better cases with only a little patience. I think two of them were sold in the classifieds here in the last few weeks alone.
Edited:
 
Peemacgee
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MtV MtV
May I ask what you paid and how the redial was disclosed in the end? The new dial looks nice (although the missing "officially certified" means it might be a 14902, not a 168.005 dial), and it you'll still have an aggressively polished case.

A return to get your money back isnt an option?

Edit: While they're certainly nice, this ref isn't too rare. You can easily find them with significantly better cases with only a little patience. I think two of them were sold in the classifieds here in the last few weeks alone.

Hello again @topfox59
What @MtV says is very true.

The dial is worth 50% of the collectors' value of the premium for a good watch and the case probably another 45%.
(Movements do have a value but presuming they are correct don't really add to the collectors' value)

Sorry to say, you have a redialled watch with a very soft case - the case is important in all watches but particularly important in this reference.
To be absolutely brutal, this is a max. £500 watch in the collectors' market

The words of the advert are so mealy-mouthed that I would return the watch if you can and not deal with this seller in the future.
"Flawless dial"
"Screw down outer case back in excellent condition"

Doesn't mention a refinished dial and only refers to the case back being in excellent condition - pretty poor show if you ask me.

The replacement dial is nice and could possibly (but uncommonly) have been found in a very early 168.005 but regardless you would know it was a put together and it would likely nag at you over time

I too would like to know what you paid and who the seller was if you wouldn't mind sharing that info.

not what you wanted to hear, I'm sure - but I hope that helps
 
gbesq
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I agree with the foregoing comments. The redial should have been disclosed at the outset and the case is heavily polished. Return it for a refund if you can. I’m attaching a photo of my 1962 14900 to give you a better idea of what an original dial and an unpolished case should look like on a dogleg Connie. Hope this helps.
upload_2021-5-19_7-46-54.jpeg
 
T
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gbesq gbesq
I agree with the foregoing comments. The redial should have been disclosed at the outset and the case is heavily polished. Return it for a refund if you can. I’m attaching a photo of my 1962 14900 to give you a better idea of what an original dial and an unpolished case should look like on a dogleg Connie. Hope this helps.
upload_2021-5-19_7-46-54.jpeg
Thanks for your comments
Can I buy your watch please
 
MtV
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Peemacgee Peemacgee
Hello again @topfox59
The words of the advert are so mealy-mouthed that I would return the watch if you can and not deal with this seller in the future.
"Flawless dial"
"Screw down outer case back in excellent condition"

Doesn't mention a refinished dial and only refers to the case back being in excellent condition - pretty poor show if you ask me.

+1 regarding the seller. Certainly not behavior that's unheard of but it'd sure put me off buying anything from the guy, I'm afraid.
 
gbesq
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T topfox59
Thanks for your comments
Can I buy your watch please
Sorry, but that one will stay in the family. Where were you when I sold this one a month ago? 🙁
upload_2021-5-19_8-21-0.jpeg
 
T
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gbesq gbesq
Sorry, but that one will stay in the family. Where were you when I sold this one a month ago?
upload_2021-5-19_8-21-0.jpeg
Just joined I'm afraid. In my research mode where clearly I should have spent longer
 
gbesq
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T topfox59
Just joined I'm afraid. In my research mode where clearly I should have spent longer
Don’t beat yourself up over this. Just about all of us have made buys that we ended up regretting when we started collecting. There are many members here who are more than willing to help you assess a prospective purchase before you actually pull the trigger. Just ask. Patience and knowledge will serve you well in the long run.
 
Dan S
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T topfox59
The seller, based in the UK, is an honest and open seller who has been very responsive and very knowledgeable.

Sneaky sellers specialize in fooling naive buyers.
 
gbesq
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OP, if you’re in the UK and want to buy a vintage Omega from a reputable dealer, contact James Kibble at Kibble Watches in London. He knows his stuff and won’t steer you wrong. Suggest that you also peruse the private watch sales forum right here on OF. Good buys come up for sale frequently.
Edited:
 
ChrisN
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I suspect this wasn't cheap looking at other watches on the dealer website. In UK law, you should have a cooling off period and can just return the watch as you bought it from a business:

You automatically get a 14-day ‘cooling-off period’ when you buy something you haven’t seen in person - unless it’s bespoke or made to measure.

The cooling-off period starts the day after you receive your order, and there doesn’t need to be anything wrong with the item for you to get a refund.

From here:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...nging-your-mind-about-something-youve-bought/

As a dealer, they won't be too concerned as will be able to sell the watch on. I wouldn't accept a dial from here, case from there, movement from over there sort of watch and it would be a poor decision to do that, in my opinion.

Cheers, Chris
 
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