Hi guys,

Following a brief discussion in the "Post Your Longineseses" thread, I am making this post to show my latest acquisition and to get your thoughts on it.



It's a 34mm steel Longines from the 60s, ref 9999 7 with cal. 302. This caliber, according to Ranfft.de:

family/generations:
fixed stud carrier:
30L: sub second
adjustable stud carrier:
302: sub second

More from Longines30L.com:

There has been made a few versions based on the 30L base calibre. (...) A 302 with larger balance and a micro/fine regulator.

@baunataler voiced concerns over the dial's originality, arguing that:

Some close ups:




I would argue the dial is original. First, as I understand it, in the 60s there was an almost infinite variety of Longines dials, sometimes the same reference not even having the same dial. Secondly, I find the printing too crisp and the name/logo too well executed for a redial.

These two points are pretty much my only arguments, and I lack the experience to back them up convincingly. It's an Italian cased example, and indeed I haven't seen a similar roman dial one either, nor have I ever seen a similar case.

Movement pics from the seller (can't open case back)




The crystal (almost certainly a replacement) is very domed and thick, distorting the printing sometimes. And now, some more photos for your entertainment.







Thanks for looking, and feel free to chime in!

 

I should also add the printing is "3D", that is, it's not flat ink, but the letters and numerals stand out in relief, almost embossed.

 

Do you know what year exactly the watch is?

 

No, I should send Longines an e-mail and find out

 

Can you explain the "Italian cased" part.

 

As far as my understanding goes, sometimes companies like Longines (and Omega) would send out movements and dials to be cased by third parties (under license, depending on their target market, eg. Italy, England, etc), such as case makers Dennison in England, for example. This is why some Omega and Longines from the 50s share the same cases sometimes.

 

Most of the re-cased by third parties were gold classes due to the precious metal importation issues.
Don't think it applied to the SS cases models

 

Thanks guys. I didn't make the connection with the Fab. Suisse, makes sense. And indeed, it could only be valid for the gold ones.

What made me think they also had steel ones cased, is that I used to have a 1950s Longines originally sold in Italy with what looks to be the same or similar case as the following omega:




And check out this one, also from Italy:

 

In the 1940s there were many Longines in the UK which were legitimately cased locally in stainless steel Dennison cases.
I don't know if that holds true for the 1950s. I would think it depends on countries and years under discussion. Ultimately Longines archives should hold the answer.
Best regards,
S

 

I sent Longines an e-mail with the query, now we wait

 

Pre WW2 not sure about.........


A good read

 

https://omegaforums.net/threads/longines-302.4162/

 

Nice link! So, same case, different dial. Studying the logo on both watches, there are some differences (hourglass on mine seems to have thicker lines; the Ns in the name also seem subtly different).

So redial after all?

 

I believe it is:
different logo (look how wing lines up with text)
swiss made placement
sub second crosshair overlap on to VI
radial brushing looks different

 

This thread reminds me of a general question I have about Longines and re-dials.

It would seem that the inked winged hourglass adorns obvious re-dials with some frequency. Can an inked winged hourglass appear on original Longines dials or is the applied winged hourglass appropriate?

 

I do believe the inked logo was fairly common in the 1960s

 

I agree with the Swiss Made placement being suspicious. But the wings on originals don't always line up with the text:





The crosshairs don't quite overlap the actual VI, it gently touches it. If it's a redial, it is a high quality one I think: sharp and embossed printing, not your usual thick, blurry lines.

Call it wishful thinking, but I'm not fully convinced yet it's a redial after all

 

For completeness' sake, I will quote here recent opinions from the "Post your Longines" thread on this watch:

Thanks guys for chiming in! As I have maintained, seeing the dial printing / inking up close, I also don't think a re-dial would be of such quality and crispness, embossed letters and all, concluding that it must be original.

I have been going back and forth on selling this watch (not because of the dial, I was doubting already before its originality was called into question, but because of other collection goals), but it seems like it is here to stay for now. I wore it yesterday in a formal setting with and it was just perfect.




I ordered a nice dark blue croc leather strap for it, should make for a nicer look. Feel free to add any other comments you may have. Cheers!