1958 Ranchero 2990-1 HELP / ADVICE / GUIDANCE

[Tbonez-perth]

I have come across this 2990-1 Ranchero . I’m needing some help to identify any signs of it being a FAKE . the movement is correct as per my research “ 267 “ and “16621004” when searched is coming up with 1958 as it should just wanting any help / stand out details about this particular watch / dial that is standing out to be fake / Vietnam special ??

What I’ve learned so far but I could be wrong ??

-The numbers are painted on and not lume
- Swiss made ( no T’s )
- possibly the sub seconds hand should be white ( but from other angles looks between black and white but I think it’s silver to be fair )
- case looks polished but possibly fake special ?
- no signed crystal ( read that these 2990 - 1 sometimes came without and sometimes with but no certainty with that )


the seller has only replaced the crown with a generic one as when he received it that was the only issue . But if anyone has anything to point out please do any more photos just let me know

Thanks heaps . Any help is very appreciated!

Edited: May 16, 2024

 

[Tbonez-perth]

More photos

 

[gbesq]

Movement and serial number are correct for a Ranchero, but you would need an extract from the archives to make sure that you don't have a swapped movement. The EOA serial number should match the movement and should specifically state that the watch is a Ranchero. I think that the dial is authentic, but I suspect that the markers have been relumed because the lume color is quite bright and differs from the lume on the hands. Typically, the lume on a black dialed Ranchero is pumpkin or rust colored. Also, the markers don't look uniform to me and the ends are rounded instead of coming to a point. The hour and minute hands look correct. The subsecond hand should definitely be white in color. I can't tell whether it's simply an incorrect replacement or whether it's the original and the paint has worn off. The case doesn't necessarily look polished to me, but it's not in the best of shape. Typically for a Ranchero, you have high polish on the top of the lugs and a satin finish on the sides of the case, but I have seen some examples where the top has a grained texture. The crown is also incorrect and should be the bowler hat type. You are correct that the crystal need not have the etched Omega logo. Many legitimate examples do not. The inscription on the case back is a negative in my opinion. Typically, there should only be the circular brushing and the word WATERPROOF in capitals. Because the lume should be radium based, I would suggest that you have the watch tested with a Geiger counter. If the lume is radium, the Geiger counter should be quite active when exposed to the dial. Are there any service records and what's the asking price? I've attached a few photos of my Ranchero for comparison.

Edited: May 11, 2024

 

[Tbonez-perth]

gbesq

Movement and serial number are correct for a Ranchero, but you would need an extract from the archives to make sure that you don't have a swapped movement. The EOA serial number should match the movement and should specifically state that the watch is a Ranchero. I think that the dial is authentic, but I suspect that the markers have been relumed because the lume color is quite bright and differs from the lume on the hands. Typically, the lume on a black dialed Ranchero is pumpkin or rust colored. Also, the markers don't look uniform to me and the ends are rounded instead of coming to a point. The hour and minute hands look correct. The subsecond hand should definitely be white in color. I can't tell whether it's simply an incorrect replacement or whether it's the original and the paint has worn off. The case doesn't necessarily look polished to me, but it's not in the best of shape. Typically for a Ranchero, you have high polish on the top of the lugs and a satin finish on the sides of the case, but I have seen some examples where the top has a grained texture. The crown is also incorrect and should be the bowler hat type. You are correct that the crystal need not have the etched Omega logo. Many legitimate examples do not. The inscription on the case back is a negative in my opinion. Typically, there should only be the circular brushing and the word WATERPROOF in capitals. Because the lume should be radium based, I would suggest that you have the watch tested with a Geiger counter. If the lume is radium, the Geiger counter should be quite active when exposed to the dial. Are there any service records and what's the asking price? I've attached a few photos of my Ranchero for comparison.

Thanks a lot for the response , correct I had
My issues because it was in such good condition . I will attach some more photos in my eyes atm it’s looking a lot more pumpkin colour than rust I think . I have another omega 1967 seamster 300 I will be getting extracts for also so I will probably go that route I think at the same time drop this one in .

I will attach another photo of the sub second hand and to me it kind of looks like the white has flaked off of it possible but I will get experts opinions .

and yes I agree the caseback inscription is an afterthought from someone perhaps but is not too bad but yet just making sure of a few things before I get to deep and fall in love with a fake

 

[Tbonez-perth]

thanks for your help mate

 

[Dsplash]

Lume looks possible to me but I would ask for either a video under uv light (radium should glow green progressively but stop immediately when the uv is turned off) and/or a Geiger counter video (it should go quite high with radium)

 

[Tbonez-perth]

Dsplash

Lume looks possible to me but I would ask for either a video under uv light (radium should glow green progressively but stop immediately when the uv is turned off) and/or a Geiger counter video (it should go quite high with radium)

appreciate the comments mate , I have a friend on Monday I will take over a put it past the Geiger , and I will try to find a if torch

 

[Davidt]

Do you have any more pictures?

Just kidding - I’d forgot your question by the time I managed to scroll to the end!

The dial looks original and I’d wager the lume is too. Radium in such good condition does set alarm bells ringing, particularly if there are areas that look heavily worn of shoe moisture ingress. However, the movement looks very clean and bright with very little tarnish or evidence of water ingress.so, if I had to say one way or another, I’d say all original.

The mid-matched colour on the hands wouldn’t concern me. Many hands have original lume which has aged a different shade to the dial (often darker). I’m more concerned with perfectly matching lume on the dial and hands which is commonly seen in many dealer prepared vintage Rolexes.

Depending on the price it could be a good buy. What’s the seller say about it?

 

[Tbonez-perth]

Davidt

Do you have any more pictures?

Just kidding - I’d forgot your question by the time I managed to scroll to the end!

The dial looks original and I’d wager the lume is too. Radium in such good condition does set alarm bells ringing, particularly if there are areas that look heavily worn of shoe moisture ingress. However, the movement looks very clean and bright with very little tarnish or evidence of water ingress.so, if I had to say one way or another, I’d say all original.

The mid-matched colour on the hands wouldn’t concern me. Many hands have original lume which has aged a different shade to the dial (often darker). I’m more concerned with perfectly matching lume on the dial and hands which is commonly seen in many dealer prepared vintage Rolexes.

Depending on the price it could be a good buy. What’s the seller say about it?

ahahaha I won’t flood anymore I don’t want to be one of those guys with not enough pictures and some half assed questions aha .

that was my concern mate mainly was the condition of the lume being basically unworn on the makers and like u say the difference in wear between the hands and markers . also quality/finish of the dial for its age It had me seconding guessing it a bit as I heard these are faked a lot ? also if it was a refinished / painted dial I think they have done an amazing job aha with the print etc from my research so far spacing looks ok and from some friends eyes but ultimately I think this is the best place to have it posted from the experts .

The seller is later 60s small watch collector and i was just asking about a 552 movement if he had one and then replied “I have an older omega from 1959 but dont know the movement number but will send photos when I get home “ . He did inform me that he got it in a trade with another vintage watch + $2000 ( can’t remember how many years ) and that person was the original buyer so the story goes aha . ( I asked for a chance at a receipt but he did say he wouldn’t remember the guys name or where to start but when he got the watch it had a missing crown so he had the Swiss generic crown put into it and serviced and been with him ever since .

I should mention that this watch wasn’t listed anywhere for sale or didnt pitch it to sell to me he just mentioned that he owned and omega from 1959 and sent me a few photos when he got home . He didnt know the model number or the movement numbers and I had to have him open the back and send photos The rest is history slipped and my bank card fell in the atm .

 

[tritto]

I think the dial is spot on. There are fake dials out there but they're easy to spot. This one is all good. I'd say the lume is also good. While they can be relumed, relume jobs don't usually get the grainy texture of the original radium lume right. If you got it somewhere near the $2k mark you did incredibly well. The engraving wouldn't bother me at all b

 

[blubarb]

A bit of a barn find by what I can see here from the pics and the story - looks good to my eyes as well, but you are right asking here on the ΩF. 👍

Edited: May 11, 2024

 

[Tbonez-perth]

tritto

I think the dial is spot on. There are fake dials out there but they're easy to spot. This one is all good. I'd say the lume is also good. While they can be relumed, relume jobs don't usually get the grainy texture of the original radium lume right. If you got it somewhere near the $2k mark you did incredibly well. The engraving wouldn't bother me at all b

This fills me with confidence and you speaking with confidence is the sugar on top . I will have a uv light over it shortly and will check back in but will put it passed the Geiger counter from trusted eyes on Monday .

ultimately from the responses so far I am feeling pretty confident we may have a winner and Almost feels like I think I know what I’m talking about now

 

[Tbonez-perth]

blubarb

A bit of a barn find by what I can see here from the pics and the story - looks good to my eyes as well, but you are right asking here on the ΩF. 👍

I agree mate , trust the gut sometimes . Appreciate the help mate . Blood worth bottling

 

[gbesq]

If the Geiger counter reacts to the lume, I think you’re good to go - and at what sounds like a bargain price!

 

[Tbonez-perth]

gbesq

If the Geiger counter reacts to the lume, I think you’re good to go - and at what sounds like a bargain price!

https://youtube.com/shorts/nx8Gur2xpAk?si=BZzDXf1uXIxbkvG9

here is a link the the Video with Uv light on the dial . bonus point is it’s the first time I’ve been able to see the bezel lume on my 67 seamaster300 getting the uv

 

[gbesq]

T Tbonez-perth

https://youtube.com/shorts/nx8Gur2xpAk?si=BZzDXf1uXIxbkvG9

here is a link the the Video with Uv light on the dial . bonus point is it’s the first time I’ve been able to see the bezel lume on my 67 seamaster300 getting the uv

Looks good to me, but I would still test with a Geiger counter before pulling the trigger.

 

[Tbonez-perth]

Dsplash

Lume looks possible to me but I would ask for either a video under uv light (radium should glow green progressively but stop immediately when the uv is turned off) and/or a Geiger counter video (it should go quite high with radium)

https://youtube.com/shorts/LJb5SJPRQlE?si=czaNs3E-drczOnoX - video link of lume under uv in the dark as per guidances. I have another next to my 165.024 I will share and attacht also as I think it shows the tritium holding its glow and the radium fading quite quickly as it should ?

 

[Tbonez-perth]

T Tbonez-perth

https://youtube.com/shorts/LJb5SJPRQlE?si=czaNs3E-drczOnoX - video link of lume under uv in the dark as per guidances. I have another next to my 165.024 I will share and attacht also as I think it shows the tritium holding its glow and the radium fading quite quickly as it should ?

https://youtube.com/shorts/WZD9TrpwsrU?si=u1BcAFHThCXL2zh7

 

[Dsplash]

That’s exactly how I would expect the lume to react.
If it was my call, I would consider it ok even without the Geiger test and pull the trigger!
How much is the owner asking?

 

[gbesq]

Dsplash

That’s exactly how I would expect the lume to react.
If it was my call, I would consider it ok even without the Geiger test and pull the trigger!
How much is the owner asking?

Yep. I was skeptical of the lume at first, but I’m sold. Good to go.