1950s Rolex Oyster: help for newbie with potential purchase

Impgreene · Jan 19, 2020

I’m a Newbie (here and to vintage watches), hence I wondered if anyone could help me by taking a look at the pictures of the watch below that I came across from a private seller.

Ideally it would be great to get an idea of a) authenticity / collectability; b) a reasonable price I should be looking to pay; and c) anything I should know or do before I purchased such a watch.

All the information I have is:

- it’s a sale by a son of his fathers watch following a bereavement, hence not a great deal is known about the watch;

- it’s being sold as a genuine vintage 1950s Rolex Oyster Vintage (c.1952);

- strap is not original or Rolex;

- there hasn’t been a recent service and a service history isn't available;

- the seller doesn’t know if all the parts are original / authentic, or if there has been any replacement or restorations;

- the backplate hasn’t been opened and the movement hasn’t been seen by the current owner (the son).

Thanks for any help you can give.

Canuck · Jan 19, 2020

Authentic. Not 1950s. More likely mid ‘60s. MANUAL WINDER, not automatic. Condition? Original parts? How would we know? Looks like it has been opened with a chisel! So condition of the movement might be an issue. Strap? This watch was likely originally sold on a steel Oyster bracelet. This thing has a LOT of miles on it, and the bracelet likely wore out, or had a major accident, and it was turfed. Value? You likely don’t want to know what I think!

janice&fred · Jan 19, 2020

Canuck
Authentic. Not 1950s. More likely mid ‘60s. MANUAL WINDER, not automatic. Condition? Original parts? How would we know? Looks like it has been opened with a chisel! So condition of the movement might be an issue. Strap? This watch was likely originally sold on a steel Oyster bracelet. This thing has a LOT of miles on it, and the bracelet likely wore out, or had a major accident, and it was turfed. Value? You likely don’t want to know what I think!

huh? that watch could easily be a late 50's model. the case back is no where near as bad as you say, it most likely never was on a bracelet as the back of the lugs are completely devoid of any head link tab wear, the crown looks like it was replaced with a newer version but aside from that it looks like a nice example to me. value wise? I would say $1000 to $1500.

Canuck · Jan 19, 2020

If the OP spends 1 to 1.5 grand on this turkey, he’ll have you to thank for it. I stand on what I said. So there!

dx009 · Jan 19, 2020

At first glance it all seems genuine. I think even the crown is the original one, if not it sure looks like the one that it came with from the factory. I think that they came on a leather strap and not a bracelet. Time period should be 1950s. I wonder if the strap buckle is genuine... Can't tell from the bad photos.

I have a feeling that some people, at times, tried opening the case back with "traditional" openers and not the Rolex ones hence the marks and a couple of scratches.

gatorcpa · Jan 19, 2020

If the OP can get the seller to get the case reference number and serial numbers from between the lugs, it would make answering questions a lot easier.

My guess is the watch was made right around 1960.
gatorcpa

Impgreene · Jan 19, 2020

Thanks for the help above, let me pester the seller and see if he can help on the case reference number and serial numbers - suspect he isn't going to want to open the case back given the damage to the teeth there already, but I will ask and revert.

janice&fred · Jan 19, 2020

Impgreene
Thanks for the help above, let me pester the seller and see if he can help on the case reference number and serial numbers - suspect he isn't going to want to open the case back given the damage to the teeth there already, but I will ask and revert.

well there must be a reason why you have zeroed in on this particular watch. the owner is nearby and/or a friend? the asking price is appealing? the model and serial numbers really aren't all that important as most any year of this type manual model oyster will pretty much trade around the same value given the condition is comparable, and most of these oldies are a bit rough around the edges. the original dial is the key. we would assume it runs as you didn't mention it being a broken watch. opening the case back is no biggie as the proper size rolex case opening bit will surely still work. as long as the movement isn't a ball of rust you should be in ok shape to get it serviced whenever you are ready. the manual wind 12xx movements were very common so most watch techs are familiar with them. I think the most salient detail on this watch is going to be the price.

Canuck · Jan 19, 2020

janice&fred
well there must be a reason why you have zeroed in on this particular watch. the owner is nearby and/or a friend? the asking price is appealing? the model and serial numbers really aren't all that important as most any year of this type manual model oyster will pretty much trade around the same value given the condition is comparable, and most of these oldies are a bit rough around the edges. the original dial is the key. we would assume it runs as you didn't mention it being a broken watch. opening the case back is no biggie as the proper size rolex case opening bit will surely still work. as long as the movement isn't a ball of rust you should be in ok shape to get it serviced whenever you are ready. the manual wind 12xx movements were very common so most watch techs are familiar with them. I think the most salient detail on this watch is going to be the price.

Janice and Fred are saying it’s okay to spend $1,000 to $1,500 for this thing. Now, it seems, they are not quite so certain! 😁

janice&fred · Jan 19, 2020

Canuck
Janice and Fred are saying it’s okay to spend $1,000 to $1,500 for this thing. Now, it seems, they are not quite so certain! 😁

did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today or are you like this every day? I am trying to find out what the price is. I am quite certain of the value I and most would pay and I posted that already. it's clear you have some sort of issue with this watch and that was already noted in your first post in this thread. however you may better spend your time learning about vintage rolex values before you dump on a decent honest looking watch like this, and those of us that appreciate them.

Impgreene · Jan 19, 2020

janice&fred
well there must be a reason why you have zeroed in on this particular watch. the owner is nearby and/or a friend? the asking price is appealing? the model and serial numbers really aren't all that important as most any year of this type manual model oyster will pretty much trade around the same value given the condition is comparable, and most of these oldies are a bit rough around the edges. the original dial is the key. we would assume it runs as you didn't mention it being a broken watch. opening the case back is no biggie as the proper size rolex case opening bit will surely still work. as long as the movement isn't a ball of rust you should be in ok shape to get it serviced whenever you are ready. the manual wind 12xx movements were very common so most watch techs are familiar with them. I think the most salient detail on this watch is going to be the price.

Hi - I zeroed in for a number of reasons ............….

1. I just liked the look and the age (I would like to buy a proper 'vintage' watch, otherwise I risk having to class myself as 'vintage' if I buy one that is too young!);

2. I got a bit fatigued about trying to tell which dealers were legitimate and which watches from dealers hadn't been redialied or retouched (this site saved me from a number of dealers, but equally dealers mentioned here as being reputable didn't reply about retouching / redailing etc. on watches I would have bought);

3. whilst I'm not a vintage watch expert at all, I do collect other vintage / antiques, hence given the overall 'look' of the watch it seemed to me that it wouldn't have been messed around with too much (given my experience on #2 above) - to an untrained eye it seemed 'roughly' right; and

4. it was a private seller, and there's quite a lot of ways to check out whether he is questionable or trustworthy if they are a person rather than a firm (eBay history, online presence etc.), so I can get comfortable that he at least believes that he is saying.

The only thing I can't control is whether he believes what he is saying but he is wrong, or that there are things he doesn't know that are material.

But, in short, I liked the watch and thought this the least likely 'buy' for me to get taken for a ride on ;-)

Hope that makes sense.

janice&fred · Jan 19, 2020

Impgreene
Hope that makes sense.

it all would make sense if you shared how much the owner is looking to get for it. $3000 no...$1000 yes makes sense.

Canuck · Jan 19, 2020

janice&fred
did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today or are you like this every day? I am trying to find out what the price is. I am quite certain of the value I and most would pay and I posted that already. it's clear you have some sort of issue with this watch and that was already noted in your first post in this thread. however you may better spend your time learning about vintage rolex values before you dump on a decent honest looking watch like this, and those of us that appreciate them.

Anytime you see a watch that some ham handed rank amateur has tried to open, I don’t know about you, but I have to wonder what sort a damage has been inflicted on this obsolete movement. You’ve made your case. You've told him to spend rather a lot of money, when better examples are likely available for no more money. And don’t make any incorrect assumptions about my experience as a collector and technician!

janice&fred · Jan 19, 2020

yawn...

Syrte · Jan 19, 2020

I don’t know anything about Rolex but I like it.

Canuck · Jan 19, 2020

janice&fred
yawn...

You need more sleep! 🥱

redpcar · Jan 19, 2020

Not sure how old you are but keep in mind that this is a manual wind watch with a screw down crown. It will need to be wound everyday (assuming you plan to wear it every day 😀).
This has always been a turn off for me on this model. Unscrew the crown, wind watch, screw in crown. Guess what wears out first?

Impgreene · Jan 19, 2020

janice&fred
it all would make sense if you shared how much the owner is looking to get for it. $3000 no...$1000 yes makes sense.

Sorry, I'm behind on the treads by the time I have posted my reply, I was just about to say.

He wants £2,000 (GBP), but it comes with a new ostrich Rolex strap (genuine but not original) and a box (which he notes as potentially not original) - take off the strap and I suspect he's at £1,800, and take off a bit more for haggling and I suspect £1,600 is where it is without any real argument.

Seem like consensus is that would be too much - I quite like the watch so my approach would be just to tell him what a fair price is taking everything into account (e.g. the risk associated with not being able to see the movement given the mess someone has made of the back of the case).

Canuck · Jan 19, 2020

redpcar
Not sure how old you are but keep in mind that this is a manual wind watch with a screw down crown. It will need to be wound everyday (assuming you plan to wear it every day 😀).
This has always been a turn off for me on this model. Unscrew the crown, wind watch, screw in crown. Guess what wears out first?

Wise advice! But @janice&fred have told him he go full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes, and buy a pig in a poke, knowing nothing about it. Very helpful @janice&fred!

Impgreene · Jan 19, 2020

redpcar
Not sure how old you are but keep in mind that this is a manual wind watch with a screw down crown. It will need to be wound everyday (assuming you plan to wear it every day 😀).
This has always been a turn off for me on this model. Unscrew the crown, wind watch, screw in crown. Guess what wears out first?

Would be more of an occasional dress watch - I have a modern Seamaster for the weekends and IWC Portuguese for the work week - I still do prefer automatics though.

1950s Rolex Oyster: help for newbie with potential purchase

Impgreene

Canuck

janice&fred

Canuck

dx009

gatorcpa

Impgreene

janice&fred

Canuck

janice&fred

Impgreene

janice&fred

Canuck

janice&fred

Syrte

Canuck

redpcar

Impgreene

Canuck

Impgreene

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