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1946 "Pre-Seamaster" Ref. C2577-4 Full Set (Pat Pen Box, BoR

Vintage Cheshire
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1946 "Pre-Seamaster" Ref. C2577-4 Full Set (Pat Pending Clam Box, Signed Buckle & BOR 1036 - 11)

Hi All. I'm new to this and an amateur collector, this was my 2nd purchase.. Bu I
recently purchased an early Omega Bumper Automatic and wanted to get the forum's expert opinion on its overall value and rarity.

Here are the key details I have gathered so far:

Reference: C 2577 - 4 (Stainless Steel, Staybrite case back)

Serial Number: 10,450,998 (Dates the movement to roughly 1946)

Dial: Original, un-restored silver-champagne dial with applied gold Arabic quarters and dagger markers. No "Seamaster" text.

Crown: Vintage signed scalloped service crown.

Extras: It came with a period-correct folding leatherette clamshell display box ("Pat. Applied For"), a signed Omega buckle on a leather strap and a vintage 1036 Beads of Rice bracelet with No. 11 end links.

The case edges look sharp and it appears to have escaped aggressive polishing over the years.

I would love to hear your thoughts on what a fair collector-to-collector market value would be for the complete set in today's market.Thanks in advance for any insights!

Screenshot_20260613_092118.webp Screenshot_20260613_092946.webp Screenshot_20260613_093745.webp Screenshot_20260613_093830.webp Screenshot_20260613_093907.webp Screenshot_20260613_093403.webp Screenshot_20260613_092110.webp
 
padders
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Hmm. That watch worries me. The 2577 model was launched in 1948 and the earliest serial I’ve seen is around 11.5m. What I think you have there is a Franken with an earlier movement. No 2577 has an exposed spring bumper movement AFAIK. I also think it has been redialled so the claims in the add text are false. It might be time to arrange a return. There are models known as Pre-Seamaster from the mid to late ‘40s but the 2577 (and 2576) was the first true Seamaster.

ps Omega themselves celebrated 50 years of the Seamaster in 1998.
Edited:
 
padders
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Vintage Cheshire Vintage Cheshire
I paid £590 should I return it

Well that’s your call but I suspect no collector here would give you more than parts value for it which might be half that at most. The BOR bracelet has value if genuine. Maybe £100 but many are fakes.
 
Vintage Cheshire
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Thank you guys. I've opened up a return on ebay as it doesn't arrive till tomorrow. Appreciate all your help... Thanks
 
Vintage Cheshire
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I'm worried now.. As I bought a pan pie too. It's a 1963 Constellation Pie Pan Ref. 167.005 (Onyx Inserts)

Reference: 167.005 (Stainless Steel, Genta-designed dog-leg lug case)

Dial: Original, un-restored silver-white Pie Pan dial with crosshair grid. It features the raised steel baton hour indices holding hand-cut genuine black onyx gemstone inserts. Applied gold/steel Ω logo and star at the bottom. It is a symmetric, date-free dial layout.Movement:

Calibre 551 chronometer-rated automatic engine.

Condition: The case edges and dog-leg lug facets look very sharp to me, and it appears to have escaped aggressive polishing over the years. The crispness of the observatory medallion on the back seems fully intact.

Screenshot_20260614_094022.webp Screenshot_20260614_094030.webp Screenshot_20260614_094038.webp Screenshot_20260614_094034.webp Screenshot_20260614_094056.webp Screenshot_20260614_094100.webp Screenshot_20260614_094115.webp Screenshot_20260614_094051.webp
 
Davidt
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Wow. That also has a fake buckle but more worryingly the dial is certainly not unrestored. It’s badly repainted.
I actually have concerns there the whole watch might be fake rather than just redialed
 
Davidt
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The dial is 100% not right. At best it’s redialed. At worst it’s fake.
I’m concerned about the whole watch as there are some fake dogleg constellations and the easiest tells are the facets, reverse of the lugs and bezel. I can’t tell from your photos if it’s fake or just badly polished.

It’s irrelevant really anyway. Even if genuine, its a horrible redial with a bad case and should be returned. I’d name the seller as well as the descriptions are so far removed from the condition of the watches as to be either utterly incompetent or downright deceitful
Edited:
 
padders
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I concur fully with the above. The dial is obviously and badly repainted. Note the irregularity of the minute indices, dodgy text fonts and missing 'Swiss Made' text. The caseback markings are not as crisp as they should be and that at least could well be fake, if not perhaps the entire case. The movement is filthy and desperately needs servicing.

Is this from the same seller? Deffo one to avoid since they are dishonest bordering on criminal. To be honest, ebay is like the Wild West when it comes to vintage watches like the. Sellers routinely lie.

Without meaning to sound unkind, I think you need to either find a more reliable source for your watches and/or do a lot of research on what you are buying as at present you are paying very heavy noob-tax. If you bought these because they seemed cheap, they were cheap for a reason. Right here is a good place to start to your research on a particular ref and if you have a watch in mind, ask here about it before buying. We are happy to help.
 
aprax
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+1
The fonts on that evidently repainted dial are simply wrong, for instance the final n in Constellation.
Also, the upper bridge in the movement has been swapped with a bridge of a 552 movement (which is not chronometer rated).
You should really return that watch, if at all possible.
 
MtV
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@Vintage Cheshire

No offense, but if you can’t spot the issues, especially with the dials, take it a little slower to avoid getting burned (again).

The Seamaster is an absolute mess. Most issues are stated above: Redial, movement doesn’t belong in this reference, fake buckle, box doesn’t belong to the watch, even if the BoR is legit it was produced much later. Also the crown isn’t correct, the second hand isn’t correct, and the case is so polished the bevel on the bezel doesn’t even exist anymore.

The Constellation is a redial at the very least but as was mentioned, I don’t even believe the case to be legit. It has this over-pronounced appearance and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a complete fake.

Take a step back; do some reading, look at good examples which can be found easily here. It’s a lovely hobby, but patience is a big part of it.
 
bardamu
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MtV MtV
@Vintage Cheshire



Take a step back; do some reading, look at good examples which can be found easily here. It’s a lovely hobby, but patience is a big part of it.

This.
 
SOG53
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At the very top of this Vintage forum you will find 2 threads, the first is a great starter, and the second is a daily post of vetted EB listings so you can see what mods think are reasonable choices. You can also find sales listings in the Private Sales thread where trusted OF members offer watches FS you can contact sellers by DM if you are interested treated to buy.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/learn-how-to-fish-a-guide-not-for-enquiries.52603/ Cover Image
Thread 'Learn How To Fish - A Guide - Not For Enquiries' ·
I have had a few newer members asking me for advice on how to spot a good vintage watch and what they should be on guard for. I've decided to post a little primer on how to assess vintage watches...
ConElPueblo ·

https://omegaforums.net/threads/recommended-vintage-omega-watches-only-on-ebay-not-for-inquiries.1790/ MSNWatch
Thread 'Recommended Vintage OMEGA WATCHES (only) On EBAY (NOT for Inquiries)' ·
We have lots of threads from members asking opinions on watches listed on ebay. How about we turn things around - let's talk about watches on ebay that are worth purchasing. My disclaimer is...
MSNWatch ·
 
Peemacgee
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Welcome @Vintage Cheshire.
We understand your enthusiasm- we’ve all been there - but as above you need to throttle back a bit but at least you’ve found the right place to ask questions (before you buy).

I won’t comment on the first watch but the Constellation also gives me serious pause for thought.
Better pics would be helpful but I too don’t like the dial (I think it’s fake) or the case (I’m not absolutely certain it’s fake but it raises alarm bells for me also) and the movt is a kit of parts.
Send it back asap if you can.

And I think you should name and shame the seller.
 
stormysky10
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It looks like this was the Connie listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/336611679096?nordt=true

The item description from the listing doesn't match the verbiage provided by the OP, so I am curious as to where the OP got their info from. I am surprised that "with crosshair grid" didn't set off immediate alarms. There is no crosshair whatsoever on that dial. Is there any chance that ChatGPT / AI is being to analyze watch listings? If so, I would proceed with absolute caution.
 
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MtV
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„NOT ALL 1960 PIE PAN WATCHES HAVE "SWISS MADE" STAMPED ON THE DIAL“

True: Redialled example sometimes don’t.

I like how, in the last pic, he’s asked AI about this and this very forum was used as a source to state something incorrect. You gotta know how to use AI/Google etc…

That’s what I mean:


IMG_4802.webp


By the way, @Vintage Cheshire :
If it’s too good to be true… you know the rest of the saying. Had this watch been legit, it would’ve achieved over twice as much.
 
Dan S
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stormysky10 stormysky10
It looks like this was the Connie listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/336611679096?nordt=true

The item description from the listing doesn't match the verbiage provided by the OP, so I am curious as to where the OP got their info from. I am surprised that "with crosshair grid" didn't set off immediate alarms. There is no crosshair whatsoever on that dial. Is there any chance that ChatGPT / AI is being to analyze watch listings? If so, I would proceed with absolute caution.
The description is absolute garbage. No onyx inserts, markers are gold not steel, no cross-hairs. Total AI slop with obvious hallucinations.

Those are two unfortunate purchases if the OP is wanting a collectible watch. But some new enthusiasts are more interested in having something that is clean with a vintage look.
 
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Tony C.
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Dan S Dan S
The description is absolute garbage.
"...keeps perfect time, but please bear in mind it is not new...so sometimes needs a bump to get going" 😂
 
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