Community Stories

1943 30T2SC ck2292 watch with no caseback markings

T
Posts
15
Likes
9
Hello all,

New here. I just bought this beautiful watch and am trying to find a little more out about it. The 98xxxxxx movement serial dates it to 1943, the caseback is blank. Inside the caseback is stamped 2292 along with the usual Omega marks.

I think the hands, alloy case, and dial are all exactly correct for an RAF / FAA watch. The only thing is the blank caseback. To my mind that leaves 3 possible explanations

1) It was sold direct to the public and never passed through government hands.
2) It was sold to the British government and never engraved, perhaps because it was never issued.
3) It was issued and the marks have been polished off.

I'm ruling out 3 as wishful thinking and quite unlikely.

I've seen extracts from the Omega archives for similar watches with the 6b/159 or HS8 marks and they confirm those watches were "Produced with special dial and hands for the British Government" which, to me, implies this dial+hand combo was not available for purchase by the general public.

Has anyone requested am extract from the archives for a similar unstamped-caseback version, or will I have to be the first to do that?

edit: I just found an extract from the archives for a very similar unmarked watch, which also includes the "produced for" line. So to me, that's more evidence for explanation number 2. https://www.blackbough.co.uk/produc...de-for-the-british-government-in-1944-wwosml/

Also this is a) my first Omega and b) by far the most expensive watch I own so I would appreciate any owners-tips from other 30T2SC owners. Anything I need to be careful of or watch out for?

Thanks for any advice you may have,
Howard.

omega.jpg

omega-movement.jpg

omega-caseback-inner.jpg
Edited:
 
Omegafanman
Posts
4,698
Likes
17,795
I guess an extract from the archive will answer the questions. I think a lot of the MOD supplied inner casebacks have another (longer) Omega case serial number - similar to the movement and not the 2292 ref. Omega have them on record so it was done at the factory. Still a nice looking watch.
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
Omegafanman Omegafanman
casebacks have another (longer) Omega case serial number - similar to the movement and not the 2292 ref. Omega have them on record so it was done at the factory.

Interesting. I have seen those longer inner caseback marks on other watches, but all the extract from archives I've seen go off the movement number alone (e.g. 9812345).
 
Omegafanman
Posts
4,698
Likes
17,795
T tilt
Interesting. I have seen those longer inner caseback marks on other watches, but all the extract from archives I've seen go off the movement number alone (e.g. 9812345).

Here is one with a case number listed as well (8 digit).
 
Photo extract - Copy.jpg
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
Interesting! Thank you for sharing. I assume this watch has the 6b/159 or HS.8 marks on the outside too? I wonder why some had case numbers and others didn't. It's possible that the government-destined ones were given case numbers and the outer engravings by Omega themselves. But then where does that leave mine, and the Blackbough example who's extract states it was produced for the British Government but which has no case number or outer marks.
 
Omegafanman
Posts
4,698
Likes
17,795
T tilt
Interesting! Thank you for sharing. I assume this watch has the 6b/159 or HS.8 marks on the outside too? I wonder why some had case numbers and others didn't. It's possible that the government-destined ones were given case numbers and the outer engravings by Omega themselves. But then where does that leave mine, and the Blackbough example who's extract states it was produced for the British Government but which has no case number or outer marks.

Well there was a war on I guess :0) - The one for the extract above has 6b/159 and a short alpha numeric serial number on the outer caseback which I guess the MOD stores added - I wonder if there is a record of the short MOD issued serial numbers for the outer case back anywhere. Not sure if that was centralised or local.
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
Omegafanman Omegafanman
I wonder if there is a record of the short MOD issued serial numbers for the outer case back anywhere. Not sure if that was centralised or local.

That would be an amazing resource if it existed. As you say, there was a war on. I imagine keeping records for future collectors to pore over was somewhat low on the priority list

I think I'm satisfied that mine is basically military surplus. There's a romantic possibility that it was doled out without being engraved, but even if it just sat in a store room while its siblings were picked out to go up in the Lancasters and Wellingtons, that's still a pretty cool image. A survivor, in any case. Thanks for your input.
 
size11s
Posts
768
Likes
1,328
Do you have a pic of the outer case back to try and assess whether it has had the issue markings removed? Actually, weighing the case back is a good way of judging this if you can get comparisons.

There is a member of MWR who keeps a track of the issue numbers of these but I am not sure how that could help you. I suppose that it is possible for the MOD 'blank spares' (which they must have had held for repairs I would have thought), were used for disposal through surplus contractors but I would have thought it more likely to have been skimmed. The initial govt instruction to remove issue markings pre disposal was quickly dropped as it was uneconomic.

Nice watch, congratulations. Don't get it wet obviously and as there is no shock protection only put it on and take it off in the bedroom where you have massively deep, shag pile carpets 😉
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
That’s helpful advice, thanks. Here are some pics of the caseback. There’s what looks like a date scratched in at the top, I’m guessing from a service although I think that’s usually done inside the case. Other than that I can see no trace of markings. I haven’t yet picked up the courage to remove the caseback myself, but the whole watch weighs 25g (without strap of course). The lug to lug distance is 42.5mm on both sides so I think I’m right in saying the lugs haven’t been shortened.

I contacted the seller and discovered that this watch was from their father in law who was in the army for national service, and wasn't a watch collector. My theory is that this would have been given to him by an army friend. I'm trying to find dates and details of their service history but I assume it's 1950s.

6FE4EBE7-AC8C-4F16-8C80-EE1B8A595B0C.jpeg C3E52844-5BBF-40B2-8847-3F5994957C9E.jpeg F27AD2BB-8E74-44F9-9F1E-DC66206197AA.jpeg CF8C0E07-FFF3-477F-8D50-A563AB9A2EF1.jpeg 366C1025-F53C-43A3-8A6E-E23F25D121D2.jpeg
Edited:
 
size11s
Posts
768
Likes
1,328
An untouched back on these cases is polished. There has certainly been some refinishing of the back as witnessed by the lines of abrasion, exactly what was removed we can't say but it could well have been the military issue numbers.
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
size11s size11s
An untouched back on these cases is polished. There has certainly been some refinishing of the back as witnessed by the lines of abrasion, exactly what was removed we can't say but it could well have been the military issue numbers.

What an intriguing idea. Thanks for encouraging me to share pics of the back. Poignant how history is constantly slipping away from us. If I could have only spoken to the army man the watch came from we might have known the story but now it's probably lost forever only to exist in our imaginations. That this watch might have flown over France and Germany in a Lancaster? Absolute shivers.
 
size11s
Posts
768
Likes
1,328
I understand that there are very clever techie ways of imaging metal that reveal lost, stamped (rather than engraved) details as the stamping process alters the structure of the metal somehow, but I have never heard of anyone having it done on a watch and I am sure it would be prohibitively expensive.

I would say that your watch is very likely to have been issued and demilitarised and as you say would have loads of stories to tell, most likely an RAF chap rather than army though as the 6B/159 was a pilots watch. Enjoy it for what it is now and give it some more stories.
 
Omegafanman
Posts
4,698
Likes
17,795
I guess It is also possible it was given a new case. A lot of cases got damaged in use and the alloy ones suffer corrosion. Watches were repaired during the war / parts were scarce - so make do and mend.
An Omega extract would fill in a few gaps for sure.
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
size11s size11s
I would say that your watch is very likely to have been issued and demilitarised and as you say would have loads of stories to tell, most likely an RAF chap rather than army though as the 6B/159 was a pilots watch. Enjoy it for what it is now and give it some more stories.

Thanks, yes it would have been RAF or FAA originally, and then passed to the seller's father-in-law who was army apparently, though it's possible the seller used 'army' to cover the forces in general, it happens. Hoping he can provide a little more information to me.

As to me, it's an early 40th present which marries my interest in watches with my interest in POW escapers. I loved the Wooden Horse as a kid, the true story of an audacious escape from Stalag Luft III. I wanted to find a type of watch that people involved in those types of escape would have been wearing when shot down and imprisoned. Being mostly bomber crew, I think this model fits the bill. Interestingly, there's a sequence in the 1949 Wooden Horse film featuring a similar watch with what many would call a 1953 redial... so obviously they were redialled earlier than many people think.

It's been a long road to finding it, there are so many variations and little nuances to look out for. I'm so happy I've finally found one. Without wanting to glorify the horror of WW2 - these men were dropping bombs after all - the idea that it might actually have been issued is incredible.

I will wear it with care and reverence as befits a piece of history, and when the time comes I'm sure my eight year old will take good care of it too. I found him watching a wooden horse documentary the other day. Like father like son.
 
size11s
Posts
768
Likes
1,328
To be honest, an EOA is a nice thing to have for a watch but is expensive and I am not sure that I would go to the expense for this watch. It looks right, dial, hands, case and fixed strap bars, and the movement is in the right range. If I remember correctly the 2292 case was specifically for the military order and the HS8 usually had spring bars rather than fixed strap bars (memory is knackered these days though). I would save the money for a movement service, unless it would give you pleasure having it in writing from Omega.
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
size11s size11s
To be honest, an EOA is a nice thing to have for a watch but is expensive and I am not sure that I would go to the expense for this watch. It looks right, dial, hands, case and fixed strap bars, and the movement is in the right range. If I remember correctly the 2292 case was specifically for the military order and the HS8 usually had spring bars rather than fixed strap bars (memory is knackered these days though). I would save the money for a movement service, unless it would give you pleasure having it in writing from Omega.

That rings a bell with me too, the springbar thing. I tend to agree on the EOA - I can't see it offering anything that the blackbough one doesn't already tell us. A nice to have, I'll probably do it one day just for completeness' sake.
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
Omegafanman Omegafanman
I guess It is also possible it was given a new case. A lot of cases got damaged in use and the alloy ones suffer corrosion. Watches were repaired during the war / parts were scarce - so make do and mend.
An Omega extract would fill in a few gaps for sure.

I'm pretty sure this is an original alloy case, judging from pictures I've seen. It's possible it had the caseback replaced at some point. Without a case number I'm not sure the extract would tell us much. Only one way to be sure though, you're right.
 
T
Posts
15
Likes
9
In my imagination there’s the faintest hint under the spidereweb of surface scratches of some darker shadows that could, just maybe, have once been text

2B5C8BB4-CD3E-49E6-9054-CFA4180BFBDC.jpeg 5C248112-6417-4B3F-9C56-58EC4D74BC13.jpeg
 
Omegafanman
Posts
4,698
Likes
17,795
T tilt
Thanks, yes it would have been RAF or FAA originally, and then passed to the seller's father-in-law who was army apparently, though it's possible the seller used 'army' to cover the forces in general, it happens. Hoping he can provide a little more information to me.

As to me, it's an early 40th present which marries my interest in watches with my interest in POW escapers. I loved the Wooden Horse as a kid, the true story of an audacious escape from Stalag Luft III. I wanted to find a type of watch that people involved in those types of escape would have been wearing when shot down and imprisoned. Being mostly bomber crew, I think this model fits the bill. Interestingly, there's a sequence in the 1949 Wooden Horse film featuring a similar watch with what many would call a 1953 redial... so obviously they were redialled earlier than many people think.

It's been a long road to finding it, there are so many variations and little nuances to look out for. I'm so happy I've finally found one. Without wanting to glorify the horror of WW2 - these men were dropping bombs after all - the idea that it might actually have been issued is incredible.

I will wear it with care and reverence as befits a piece of history, and when the time comes I'm sure my eight year old will take good care of it too. I found him watching a wooden horse documentary the other day. Like father like son.

People will always argue about the tactics - but it became a total war and one we could not afford to loose for the sake of freedom. When you look at the odds, the bravery of the men serving in RAF bomber command was incredible....

Bomber Command aircrews suffered a high casualty rate: of a total of 125,000 aircrew, 57,205 were killed (a 46 percent death rate), a further 8,403 were wounded in action and 9,838 became prisoners of war.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/6b-159-squadron---the-lancaster---photo-heavy.138662/
 
5 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

S.H.

1980s Glycine caseback markings. Military?

S.H. Other Watch Brands Forum
S.H.
S.H.
Posts
1
Views
1K
Omeg@007

10 Years Old watch with no dated Warranty Card but stamped

Omeg@007 Open Discussion
Omeg@007
Omeg@007
Posts
4
Views
2K
J

War on the Wrist - Story/Review - Omega CK2292

JasonF Omega Watch Reviews
sathomasga
sathomasga
Posts
4
Views
7K
tomvox1

Circa 1940s Cal. 27 CHRO inner caseback markings?

tomvox1 Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
tomvox1
tomvox1
Posts
23
Views
6K