1861 Hour Subdial Question

Squan · Jan 12, 2021

Hello all,

A friend recently bought a new speedmaster, the 1861 hesalite moon watch, from an AD. The hand on the hour subdial is not centered, and rests a bit to the right of the centered 12 indicator.

If you hold down the reset button after starting and stopping the chronograph, the hour subdial hand aligns perfectly at 12. It then moves slightly to the right after releasing the button. The watch is brand new, and is running around +10s a day. To my knowledge, the fact that it is brand new and is keeping accurate time means it’s not magnetized. (I have read that can cause this problem).

Is this a normal part of the movement or is there an issue here? Thanks in advance!

cvalue13 · Jan 13, 2021

Squan
If you hold down the reset button after starting and stopping the chronograph, the hour subdial hand aligns perfectly at 12. It then moves slightly to the right after releasing the button.

Ive read that this phenomenon, at least as applied to the central second hand, can indicate
a magnetism issue.

How that relates to the hour subdial, or the watches’ timekeeping, I don’t know.

But, out of curiosity, do you know if the chrono is keeping accurate time?

Squan · Jan 13, 2021

I think it is, it hasn’t been timed specifically against a reference but my friend has used it a few times and he says it seems accurate

cvalue13 · Jan 13, 2021

If it effected timing, I’m not certain but would suspect it would need a reference and a long run out to determine the effects if any.

in any event, it sounds like something a watchmaker should take a look at

Duckie · Jan 13, 2021

It should go back to Omega if it's a problem.
Otherwise one could leave it until it goes in for service.

bruin20 · Jan 13, 2021

This is very common on 1861 movements. I think it has to do with the gears not striking together perfectly every time the chrono is reset. I’m not a watch maker so I don’t know the technicality. Mine hits 12 perfectly most of the time but I have noticed it off to the right sometimes.

Donn Chambers · Jan 13, 2021

Hour hand creep is a common problem on Speedmasters that need a service. It has nothing to do with magnetism and should NOT be occurring on a new watch. Send it back for warranty service and it’s will be taken care of.

if you want to see a detailed technical reason why this occurs, check out response in this thread:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/321-speedy-hour-creep-questions.22557/

he is talking about a cal. 321, but the same applies for an 861 or 1861.

Archer · Jan 13, 2021

If the hammer or cam is magnetized, it can cause the hand to move as you release the pusher. Also, excess oil can cause this. First step would be to demagnetize the watch.

Squan · Jan 13, 2021

Archer
If the hammer or cam is magnetized, it can cause the hand to move as you release the pusher. Also, excess oil can cause this. First step would be to demagnetize the watch.

What do you think Archer, should the watch be sent back to omega? Or is this something to forget about

cvalue13 · Jan 13, 2021

Squan
What do you think Archer, should the watch be sent back to omega? Or is this something to forget about

Not to step on @Archer, but he says the first step is to demagnetize the watch...

Duckie · Jan 13, 2021

cvalue13
Not to step on @Archer, but he says the first step is to demagnetize the watch...

Precisely.
Whether it's done by Omega or the dog down the road it doesn't matter.
Though i would put more faith in Omega👍
It is still in warranty after all.
It's very straight forward really😉

cvalue13 · Jan 13, 2021

D Duckie
Precisely.
Whether it's done by Omega or the dog down the road it doesn't matter.
Though i would put more faith in Omega👍
It is still in warranty after all.
It's very straight forward really😉

by searching OF, you'll find resources on purchasing very cheap demagnetizers - that process can be done by the owner, at home, at little or no cost or risk.

Duckie · Jan 13, 2021

cvalue13
by searching OF, you'll find resources on purchasing very cheap demagnetizers - that process can be done by the owner, at home, at little or no cost or risk.

True.
But while they're at it they might look into a Timeographer as well.

But seriously, the watch is reportedly running accurately so I'm not convinced buying a degassed is necessarily the solution to this issue.
Besides, if the degassed is not used correctly it will yield a negative result in the event it is indeed magnetised.
And afterward how would one that is inexperienced "know" if it has even worked.
I put it to you it would be best established if the watch is indeed magnetised.
To that the simple and cheapest method of investigation would be to pick up a cheap magnetic compass and test for the presence of magnetism first.

Given the evidence and the expert advise from the most experienced who have contributed thus far.
I strongly believe that(on the balance of probability) it would be best handled for free by Omega who are best placed to solve the issue.
Especially given the experience and level of expertise of the owner and the potential scope of work.

Archer · Jan 13, 2021

D Duckie
But seriously, the watch is reportedly running accurately so I'm not convinced buying a degassed is necessarily the solution to this issue.

I agree, the gas inside has nothing to do with this.

Degaussing on the other hand, is just what the watch needs.

D Duckie
And afterward how would one that is inexperienced "know" if it has even worked.

Ummm...because it no longer moves off the centered position when you release the pusher...

D Duckie
I put it to you it would be best established if the watch is indeed magnetised.
To that the simple and cheapest method of investigation would be to pick up a cheap magnetic compass and test for the presence of magnetism first.

A compass had a magnet inside it...it will show attraction to any ferrous metal. If you believe a watch might be magnetized, there's no need to buy a compass, just demagnetize it.

Duckie · Jan 14, 2021

Archer
Ummm...because it no longer moves off the centered position when you release the pusher...

Yes of course.
And here I was believing that gasses typically found inside a watch could attract a compass needle😵‍💫

Now, by your own account there are a number of other factors that can cause the problem.
And there is no guarantee that the operator will get a good result with the degauser or is it a degasser👎

I still believe it would be best handled through Omega.
I know I could go into my local boutique and they could pretty much work out the problem and whether it needs to go to the service centre in less time than one could search the internet, order the machine(which may never be used again) and wait for it to be delivered😉
But that's just my good fortune.
Whether the receiving watchmaker can do a good job or not is another thing altogether👎

Archer · Jan 14, 2021

D Duckie
Now, by your own account there are a number of other factors that can cause the problem.
And there is no guarantee that the operator will get a good result with the degauser or is it a degasser👎

Sure, but your question was how would he know if it worked. The answer is obvious - the symptom would go away. If it didn't, then you know it's another issue, and would need service to resolve.

D Duckie
I know I could go into my local boutique and they could pretty much work out the problem and whether it needs to go to the service centre in less time than one could search the internet, order the machine(which may never be used again) and wait for it to be delivered😉

That's certainly your choice, but everyone might not want to be out and about in the middle of a pandemic. Here we are in the middle of a stay at home order, so strolling to a boutique isn't something that's encouraged. If the owner wants to take it to Omega, that was always on the table - we are simply offering an alternative that may prevent him from having to do so.

Duckie · Jan 14, 2021

Archer
Sure, but your question was how would he know if it worked. The answer is obvious - the symptom would go away. If it didn't, then you know it's another issue, and would need service to resolve.

It still doesn't account for the possibility the process not working for one reason or another.
Operator error or faulty goods comes to mind.

That's certainly your choice, but everyone might not want to be out and about in the middle of a pandemic. Here we are in the middle of a stay at home order, so strolling to a boutique isn't something that's encouraged. If the owner wants to take it to Omega, that was always on the table - we are simply offering an alternative that may prevent him from having to do so.

Don't get me wrong.
I fully accept the alternative is certainly an option.
We are just coming out of a hard 3 day lockdown here as the first one since the very beginning of this Covid thing.
Other than that we have basically been free to come and go as we please in our locality except for OS travel and it is a failing on my part to take that into full account for the OP.
I am most fortunate in that the boutique is only a 7 minute train ride away.
Thinking about it, I wonder how the OP is placed in that regard. I hope all is well and they're not in some sort of a total lockdown👍

1861 Hour Subdial Question

Squan

cvalue13

Squan

cvalue13

Duckie

bruin20

Donn Chambers

Archer

Squan

cvalue13

Duckie

cvalue13

Duckie

Archer

Duckie

Archer

Duckie

Similar threads

Omega Seamaster 105.005 Cal. 321 Subdial Hands Question

Acceptable a new Speedmaster (310.30.42.50.01.001) has a problem with an inaccurate hour subdial?

Omega hour marker subdial hand cal 1040-1045

Speedy Cal 3861 hourly subdial "hour register creep"

Hand of the 30 minute subdial "jumps" on the Speedy

3861 Hour Hand Subdial Alignment ... should I send it back?