176.007 & cal. 1040 Production Totals and the Speedmaster 125 Conspiracy Theory

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Yes, order an extract !! As it won't be correct for a 176.007, you'll get a full refund !
My guess is that rotor is not even from a 1040..
 
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Great work! Unless you're already retired, there's a great future for you in Big Data
 
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Hmm...website says "Just freshly serviced down to the plates". Maybe a rotor from a donor?
Yes, chances are it's some sort of replacement or swap, but if there are already some similarities in his list, it might open up some other possibilities...
 
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As it won't be correct for a 176.007, you'll get a full refund !
Is that really something they do?
 
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The very low serial made me think of 'outliers' and my statistics classes, long (maybe too long...) ago. Bear with me for a moment.

Let's assume, for fun, that the production of different calibers happens at a single production line and is spread out over the production process according to some simple rule: "first we make nine 861's, then one 1040, then nine 861s again" and so on, repeating the same sequence over and over. Also assume all movements receive a serial number at the end of said hypothetical production line.

Now let's say those serial numbers range from 0,000,001 to 1,000,000. If we take a large enough sample of 1040 calibers, we would find that the smallest difference in serial numbers is 10 (e.g. 2 watches with serial numbers 300,920 and 300,930). Assuming the above is true, we would know that 100,000 1040s were produced (total serial numbers divided by smallest difference).

Of course, the above isn't true. Let's take a second case, where the production of different calibers is spread out over the production process completely randomly (but are still assigned consecutive serial numbers based on moment of completion). This could look like two production lines (one for 861s and one for 1040s): whenever any movement is completed, it is added to a third 'serial number etching' line.

Assuming the same zero-to-million serial range, we could now start randomly sampling 1040 calibers from the population and noting the serial numbers. Given that the 1040s are randomly distributed over the population, the differences between consecutive serial numbers in our sample would follow, I think, a normal distribution. In fact, if we noted the serial numbers of ALL of the 1040s, calculated the difference between consecutive ones, and plotted the occurence of all the values, we would see a bell curve around the average difference, the area under which equals the total number of 1040s produced.

But it seems to me that to construct this curve, you don't need to sample all the 1040s. You would just need a large enough sample to see the outline of such a curve ("connecting the dots"). The area under such a curve could be recalculated into an estimate of the total number of 1040s produced, given that we have some idea of what the serial number range for 1040 calibers is (i.e. the total number of Omega watches produced during the 1040 production timeframe).

I wonder if that's correct, and if @Andy K 's sample is large enough to do something like that.

Of course, it only works if serial numbers are indeed assigned randomly. In fact, I don't know how the watches recieve serial numbers at all - if it's in batches ("we make two hundred 1040 movements, give them consecutive serial numbers, and then we make 600 861s and do the same") then probably none of what I say here makes sense.
Edited:
 
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Who would put $2500 for an over polished (and wrong, should be sunburst), with a wrong bracelet (should be 1170/653) and a swapped movement. I'd sell mine with original sunburst, correct bracelet and omega extract for less than that !!
Yes, order an extract !! As it won't be correct for a 176.007, you'll get a full refund !
My guess is that rotor is not even from a 1040..

Not arguing with the price/condition of the watch - that's why I want someone else to grab it! 😗 I do find the low serial fascinating. However I'm not sure I get what you mean with the swapped movement? Are you saying it should be found in a 176.001? And as @TNTwatch asked, what possible movement other than 1040 could the rotor come from?
 
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What do you think of a later 35m serial in a 176.001?

http://www.darlor-watch.com/images/omega5283_big.jpg


Looks like this one is not in your table above yet:


I had a PM exchange with another member about the Darlor watch. Another example I'd love for someone else to order an extract for! I suspect that one is swapped, though. The 35 millions I've seen extracts for are all second half of 1973.

I read the second one as 31646302 which is row 19 in my table. I could be wrong though, maybe the second 6 is an 8?
 
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Of course, it only works if serial numbers are indeed assigned randomly. In fact, I don't know how the watches recieve serial numbers at all - if it's in batches ("we make two hundred 1040 movements, give them consecutive serial numbers, and then we make 600 861s and do the same") then probably none of what I say here makes sense.

Interesting to think about. Wouldn't we also have to assume that Omega uses all possible serial numbers as well? I think I remember reading that Omega did not use all serials - meaning that during a given "era" spanning say 10 million in serials they produced significantly fewer than 10 million watches.
 
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This is really early, given how close together the consecutive numbers 3 to 25 (cells D4 to D26) in your list are.

How about just ordering an extract? You have the serial number and photographs. Maybe we could all pitch in!

PS I just sourced an actual NOS 1170 bracelet for one of my 176.007s - old style, with screws. I'm over the moon and wanted to share it 😉
Congrats on sourcing the bracelet. 👍
I'll pitch in $10. But $150? I'm curious, but not THAT curious.😁

EDIT: I just emailed Omega customer service. Maybe we can get the answer for free?😗
Edited:
 
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I read the second one as 31646302 which is row 19 in my table. I could be wrong though, maybe the second 6 is an 8?
I think it's an 8.
I just emailed Omega customer service. Maybe we can get the answer for free?😗
A few people seem to have got their answers that way.
 
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While on the topic of eBay and serial number outliers...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auth-OMEGA-...368791?hash=item3d1ab97cd7:g:z~IAAOSwZ8ZW3Ude

This Mark IV has been on sale from a Japanese seller for quite some time. No movement pics but the seller lists the SN as 305XXXXX. It isn't on my table because that isn't enough digits, but I also don't believe that SN to be correct. Maybe the 0 should be a 6 or an 8?

Before the 007 with SN 30001114 this would have been the lowest SN on my table. As it currently stands, the lowest SN for a 176.009 I have is 342480XX. So if correct, this one would be an outlier by 4 million! 😲 Multiple messages to the seller asking for wither the full SN or an image of the movement have been unanswered.
 
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Well, annoying as it may be, unless he produces a picture, this data point just doesn't meet your qualifications and should be tossed out...
 
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Congrats on sourcing the bracelet. 👍
I'll pitch in $10. But $150? I'm curious, but not THAT curious.😁

EDIT: I just emailed Omega customer service. Maybe we can get the answer for free?😗

Well, I tried. My question was whether or not this serial went with 176.007, here is the response I received:

Hello Mr Andy K----,
Thank you for visiting our website and for your inquiry.
Unfortunately, we were unable to identify your timepiece.
We suggest trying the following:
· Omega offers access to this information through our vintage watch search feature to all of our customers inquiring about identification/ information of vintage watches. You may follow this link, Vintage, which will bring you to Omegas vintage watch search.
· If your Omega was purchased through a third party or a pre-owned piece the only way to verify the authenticity would be to have it inspected by a certified service technician. You may send it to any of our authorized service centers. Please find attached PDF showing locations and instructions on how to send your watch into us.
· We also normally recommend our customers contact an appraiser specializing in timepieces or contact a reputable auction house for obtaining information on vintage Omega watches. Many of our customers use the American Society of Appraisers. You can contact them at 1-800-272-8258 or via email www.appraisers.org
We do hope this has been able to assist you. Should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
 
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There must be some trick that people used to get their answers... 😀

Btw, do you also collect the R serial numbers and the 5-digit ones ?
 
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There must be some trick that people used to get their answers... 😀

Btw, do you also collect the R serial numbers and the 5-digit ones ?
I think it depends on who is working that day. I asked a few years ago whether my 3570.40 was legit and they verified it. Or maybe past a certain year they cannot do it. Interesting that they didn't even mention the Extract service.

I used to keep a separate chart for the 5 digit and R once but I've stopped updating it.