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105.012 Advice Needed (pic heavy thread)

  1. fergusm

    fergusm Dec 19, 2017

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    Folks,

    I'm tempted by a 105.012-65 I've come across but I'm hopelessly out of my league when it comes to 50+ year old watches. My oldest watch is a 1981 16750 which I bought from a reputable dealer in SF.

    The seller states that this watch is all original with an unpolished case which almost sounds too good to be true!

    I've attached a lot of photos and would appreciate feedback/advice etc. The watch is being sold head only.

    thanks in advance!
    Fergus
     
    omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_1_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_2_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_3_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_4_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_5_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_6_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_7_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_8_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_9_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_10_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_11_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_12_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_13_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_14_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_15_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_16_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_17_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_17b_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_18_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_19_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_20_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_21_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_22_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_23_2x.jpg omega speedmaster professional ‘first watch on the moon’_24_2x.jpg
  2. Kringkily

    Kringkily Omega Collector Dec 20, 2017

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    I would just comment but the seller is stating it as unpolished when the sides of the case are clearly polished and brushed?
     
    03FACC3D-CD8A-419C-9E1F-83FA5328E734.jpeg
    lando, drhex, Dre and 3 others like this.
  3. Davidt

    Davidt Dec 20, 2017

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    The dial is not attractive IMO. The plot are green and mouldy when they should be yellow/orange.

    The hands appear to have been repainted.

    The movement looks like it's had a hard life.

    Due to the above I'd expect the watch was in a sorry state, possibly due to moisture ingress before it was restored/serviced.

    Personally I'd keep looking.
     
    Dre, wsfarrell, Larry S and 5 others like this.
  4. Seaborg

    Seaborg Dec 20, 2017

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    As have already said @Kringkily, both case and caseback appear to be polished...
    I do not like the color of the lume on plots/hands.

    As always, it clearly depends upon the asking price...

    Cheers.
     
    Edited Dec 20, 2017
  5. mr_yossarian

    mr_yossarian Dec 20, 2017

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    Fergus, I've seen that one too. All said here already. The real deal breaker for me is the asking price in conjunction with the offered condition, especially the dial is not really what I would want.
     
  6. SpeedyPhill

    SpeedyPhill asked ages ago but no longer interested Dec 20, 2017

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    Dirty lume/dial... right crown though :thumbsdown:
     
  7. bgrisso

    bgrisso Dec 20, 2017

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    Lume is a no go, unless it's really cheap.
     
  8. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 20, 2017

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    I would avoid this one...whoever worked on it last certainly taken liberties with fixing the movement problems it has...

    [​IMG]

    Fill the hole in the jumper with glue or epoxy, drill a small hole in it, and affix to the movement by twisting a piece of wire around the screw. Note that the missing parts are no longer available, and you would have to search for them, which may take some time.

    Brings back fond memories of "paper clip gate"...but this one is, shall we say, more creative.

    Cheers, Al
     
    lando, Wing Zero, justinz and 12 others like this.
  9. BenBagbag

    BenBagbag Dec 20, 2017

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    :eek::eek::eek::eek: PAPER CLIP GATE!!!!!

    How lucky are we on the forums to have such experts like AI @Archer come on and share their expertise. Thank you AI.
     
    KstateSkier, murph, lando and 3 others like this.
  10. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 20, 2017

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    Thanks, but I see so many of these that my eye is automatically drawn to such things...seems like the watch is already being discounted for other reasons, but I thought I would add this in as well.

    Regarding paper clip gate, if you didn't get the reference, here is the thread in question...I do wonder if it's the same dealer (now banned from here BTW)...

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/my-most-precious-to-date-has-arrived-then-gone-again.21008/

    Cheers, Al
     
    Wing Zero, Dre, red crowned and 2 others like this.
  11. Spacefruit

    Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Dec 20, 2017

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    This watch again brings into disrepute the word, or concept of unpolished. Its an absurd idea, that a 50 year old watch is valuable because it looks like it has been chewed by a crocodile with tungsten teeth. I blame the Rolex trade for this ludicrous idea, along with many other ills of the second hand market.

    An unpolished watch is only valuable IF it has also retained its original finish, or much of it. Not one that has been tumbled through life for decades, (as arguably it should have been). Rolexes were produced in far larger numbers than Speedmasters. Also of course there are three or four collectable Rolex models from the same period, so a much larger pool of watches. So there exists a larger number of Rolexes bought and put away unused or little worn that have come down through time unscathed. I think this is the concept "unpolished" is meant to convey - a watch that has had so little use that the original lines and finish are predominant.

    Speedmasters were even more tool watches than Rolex, and very, very few have remained in drawers unworn. I have only ever seen one straight lug speedmaster that was unworn. One. I have seen numerous unpolished, and unworn vintage rolex.

    To the OP watch....

    Its a useful, enjoyable watch - at a price. That price has to take into account a full movement service with plenty of parts replacement, and bear in mind it will always be held back in terms of value by the Algae plots and the way the case has been refinished.

    I would get an extract to make sure no funny business in the movement - that is extra funny business beyond the wire repair.

    As a cheap 105.012 with an attractive dial body colour, I like it. I could live with those plots, and the rest of it, at a price.

    That price has to reflect a restoration cost of $1000 to 2000.

    Most will throw their hands up and say they can do it cheaper.

    They can, but they will end up with a watch I would not want.
     
  12. Moadib

    Moadib Dec 20, 2017

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    Again fascinating thread, shows how important to study every detail. Indeed lucky that the 'repaired' parts are visible in the image, but even then takes a great eye to spot that. Educational!
     
    murph and nzshadow like this.
  13. mr_yossarian

    mr_yossarian Dec 20, 2017

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    you're close to 200, wonder what you have to sell.
     
  14. Moadib

    Moadib Dec 20, 2017

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    Sorry, but ab-so-lutely nothing.
     
  15. josem84

    josem84 Dec 20, 2017

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    He's been a member of the site for almost two months now, 150 posts in a 2 months period seems pretty normal to me.
     
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  16. maxbelg

    maxbelg Dec 20, 2017

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    I'm so pleased that an experienced watchmaker frequents this forum to add this type of useful info! Thanks Al!
     
    red crowned likes this.
  17. watchknut

    watchknut New watch + Instagram + wife = dumbass Dec 20, 2017

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    OP...keep hunting.

    Patience and investment is the key to Speedmasters. Do not settle on anything less than an very good example all around...you may $1-3K more depending on reference, but in the long run you will be in a much position if you need to sell.

    The market does not treat examples with polished cases, crappy dial lume, replaced parts, or beat movements well. You think you are saving by paying a lower price up front, but you will really pay when it comes time to sell.
     
    Kali77, MikiJ, Nla91 and 2 others like this.
  18. mr_yossarian

    mr_yossarian Dec 20, 2017

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    Brilliant first post!
     
    red crowned likes this.
  19. fergusm

    fergusm Dec 20, 2017

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    Just getting around to reading the replies to my post so thanks to all for the insight and expertise!

    Clearly this is a minefield and a beginner, this forum is an amazing resource and the passion on display is pretty inspiring.

    I'm going to pass on this one and keep looking. Thanks again everyone!
     
    valoletten, nzshadow and watchknut like this.
  20. mr_yossarian

    mr_yossarian Dec 20, 2017

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    good.