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  1. CVivash

    CVivash Mar 14, 2013

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    Hello all,

    I recently picked up the watch pictured below.

    I know that it is a 342 automatic dated to 1949 in a Dennison made solid 9ct case, ref 12308.

    When I tried to look this up on the Omega database I ran into problems because of the Dennison case reference. The only similar watches were the Tresor range. These are solid gold, date from 1949 onwards, did have the 342 movement, among others, and the case styles are very similar, have a look at Omega cases 2643 or 2659.

    I know Tresor were usually 18 or 14ct but were Dennison asked to make a 9ct version in the UK? Tresor watches don't seem to be marked as such so what would set apart a Tresor as opposed to any other Omega watch?

    I am really happy with the watch, runs like a charm, just trying to get as much info together as I can so anything anyone else can offer about these early bumpers is gratefully received.

    Thanks.

    IMG_3148.JPG

    IMG_3114.JPG

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  2. mac_omega

    mac_omega Mar 14, 2013

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    I think this watch has nothing in common with a "Tresor"
    erich
     
  3. MSNWatch

    MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Mar 14, 2013

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    The tresor was a line of omegas made specifically for the south american market - these were watches built to a certain price point to make it affordable for a market where incomes were lower than in Europe or North America. As a consequence, the case styles were simpler and cases were lighter with less gold content compared to the swiss cases. Two advantages though - there were some nice jumbo tresor models - 37.5mm in diameter not including the crown and many of them came in rose gold which is now favored over yellow gold (but was always a preference even in the 1950s-60s) in certain markets such as central and south america as well as the middle east.
     
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  4. CVivash

    CVivash Mar 14, 2013

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    Thank you both for your comments.

    There are several things in common with a Tresor, date, movement, solid gold case for instance but differences as well, 9ct Dennison case for one. So I was interested to understand what would make one watch a Tresor and another a solid gold 342 automatic.

    I had seen a Dennison cased watch on ebay described as a Tresor (though I wasn't too convinced) and I had read that Dennison made 9ct Tresor cases. But now reading your comments MSNWatch it makes more sense and if it was aimed at a specific market UK made cases are pretty much impossible!

    I'm not bothered either way just always trying to learn and now I will know for the future. Thanks for your help.

    Any more snippets of info ref the watch anyway that may be of interest?

    Thanks again.
     
  5. MSNWatch

    MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Mar 14, 2013

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    The quality of Dennison cases was the equal of the swiss made ones. However the watch you pictured isn't worth a lot because dennison cased omegas are generally less collectible than the swiss cased ones, this one is 9kt rather than 14 or 18k and most importantly has a refnished dial.
     
  6. CVivash

    CVivash Mar 14, 2013

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    Thanks again.

    I picked the watch up because I wanted a simple dial for wear in the office so I am not too worried if it is refinished. It looked pretty good to me though, the only thing I wasn't sure of was the sub second dial as I've not seen an Omega one like that before.

    For my education can you point out what marks it out as a redial? I've added another picture to help.

    IMG_3141.JPG
     
  7. gatorcpa

    gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Mar 16, 2013

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    A couple of observations on this dial:

    1. The "A" in OMEGA and Automatic should have a slightly flat top. This dial has pointed A's.

    2. The sub-dial should be printed out to the edge. The seconds hand is likely original and points outside the register. Looks very strange.

    The redial looks to be high quality and was done a while ago.

    Hope this helps,
    gatorcpa
     
  8. CVivash

    CVivash Mar 21, 2013

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    Gator,

    Thanks for taking the time to make the above points. Always looking to learn.

    I wasn't 100% sure about the subdial but the rest of it looked right to me so I just thought it was an unusual variant.

    I'm happy enough as it was bought for a daily wearer in the office.

    Thanks again.
     
  9. apollo XI

    apollo XI Mar 24, 2013

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    This is my Seamaster "Tresor". In a heavy 18 gold case.

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG 6.JPG 7.JPG
     
  10. mac_omega

    mac_omega Mar 24, 2013

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    There is no "Seamaster Tresor".... either it is a Tresor or it is a Seamaster, it can not be both at one time!
    The dial most probably has been swapped as the extract of the archive does describe it as "Tresor" and not Seamaster.
     
  11. Wheels

    Wheels Mar 24, 2013

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    That is a nice dial in its own right though!
     
  12. apollo XI

    apollo XI Mar 25, 2013

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    Interesting observation, you can right, but .... I'm not so sure.
    I bought it from the first owner and just one time it saw a watchmaker.
    The radium on index and on hands is of the same color and it's old.

    But I learned one thing, for the vintage watch story: all is possible or nothing is impossible :) :)

    Anyhow, thank you very much for information. :thumbsup:

    Giuseppe.
     
  13. MSNWatch

    MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Mar 25, 2013

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    I would agree with Erich - plus the fact that the watch has a decagonal constellation crown that is not original to the watch makes it likely that other parts (in this case the dial) has been replaced as well.
     
  14. seamonster

    seamonster Respectable Member Mar 25, 2013

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    Respectable Member MSNWatch

    I share your agreeing to mac_omega's opinion.

    Apart from whatever details currently asked by Omega Switzerland, before a certificate is issued, I think Omega Switzerland should also insist on the following: a) current picture of the watch with its dial, facing the camera b) picture of inside back-cover, and c) picture of movement. All these pictures will then be affixed to the certificate from the Archives.

    Thank-you.
     
  15. mac_omega

    mac_omega Mar 26, 2013

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    This would be great - but I think impossible to execute... it would be too much additional work for the staff of the archive - they have loads of work anyway yet... and there still is the risk of mismatching pictures when producing the extract... they already "produce" errors these days with simple extracts - I had to face several times, e.g. "center second" instead of "sub second", "chronograph" instead of "chronometer", etc.

    a great idea but impossible unless they employ 10 more persons in their team - and is this interesting for the SWATCH-group? I think they are not so much interested in vintage section - they mainly want to sell their new stuff. I wonder that they afford to maintain this vintage service as it is now at this price level - compare price with Patek´s prices...

    just my 2 cents

    erich
     
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  16. Aroma

    Aroma Mar 26, 2013

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    Dennison's did make a case for the Tresor but it was ref 13308 and not like your 12308. The genuine Tresor (13308) was a large (36mm) 18kt clipback case and was made only from around 1950 to 1952 and it used the 30mm series movements - mainly the cal 283 manual wind - it cost £80 in the UK in 1952 and represented about 14 weeks wages for the average worker of the time so contrary to what has been said here, it was always an expensive watch but below the Seamaster in the model range

    Here is mine:-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Your 12308 was a 32mm dia case for the cal 342 bumper and your case/caseback/movement are all contemporary

    Certainly within the UK, Dennison cases are highly regarded and fetch a slight premium over the Swiss equivalents as they are usually heavier and therefore contain more gold.

    Cheers
     
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  17. Fritz

    Fritz Nov 30, 2014

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    Just for the hell of it I went on the Omega vintage database and typed in Tresor. You get listings from the late forties up to about 1960 fitted with everything from 30mm calibers right up to full rotor automatics. From comments here and elsewhere on the web it doesn't look like a South America only line, but something sold in parts of Europe, including England as well.
     
  18. Tom Dick

    Tom Dick and Harry Nov 30, 2014

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    Now that's a useful tread, I've long wondered this, so this is really useful to know. That's why I love this forum
     
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