Hi all, A couple of weeks ago I posted my vintage display-backed Omega Seamaster Deville. The research I had found at the time pointed to these pieces being prototypes from Omega - sent with the caliber 560 movement only to salesmen to use to show off the movements. The Omega Museum acknowledges these pieces as original Omega. http://omega.watchprosite.com/?show=forumpost&fi=677&pi=3558246&ti=573541&s=and refers to them as " KL6292VB for "Kleerback" More research supporting this here: http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2009/07/unearthed-more-omega-calibre-560.html And here: http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2008/11/rare-seamaster-deville-prototype.html Then today I was doing some more research and I came across a newspaper clipping in PDF format on the internet from 1964. http://archive.wmlnj.org/TheWestfieldLeader/1964/1964-12-03/pg_0009.pdf In the top right of this newspaper you see an advertisement for a "Kleerback" Omega - an Omega (unknown caliber), Gold-Filled case, and an offer from the jeweler (or is it an offer from Omega..?) to install a display back. So which is accurate..? How could I know which way my watch was made? My watch matches the description of the watch in the first theory (prototype), and has all of the correct markings for that - including a lack of an Omega model number on the case, which I have read is very unusual. I'm sure if it was the latter, the watch would be considered less valuable? This either indicates that Omega was selling these watches as a "Kleerback" model as well, or that the jeweler was taking some liberties. But, the use of the word "Kleerback" by both the Omega museum as well as the 1964 advertisement makes me think it was an offer through Omega, and not a rogue jeweler. What do you guys think? Here's a link to my last thread with pictures of my watch. http://omegaforums.net/threads/rare...deville-a-prototype-with-a-display-back.1097/
I very much agree with your conclusions, i.e., that this was a limited time optional offering by Omega, through its dealers. This would very well explain the inconsistencies that others have noted; that there are too many of these (though admittedly not a lot) Kleerbacks around to be attributed to salesman's copies. Very nice find.
I agree - more available than a prototype and certainly less frequent than the regular model. The issue though here is one of value as my feeling would be even in original form it would be worth a small premium over the regular model - perhaps 10-20% more.
So, just as these were offered with a plain back for engraving and with the hippocampus it appears that they were in fact offered with the display back. Chalk another one up for Norman Morris. The lack of case reference number doesn't bother me at all, if you look at the construction of the case, (I've had mine apart), there really isn't a practical place to put one.
Looks like we may have solved the mystery then. With two advertisements from different dealerships, it seems that this must have been a limited time promotional offering through Omega, as opposed to a prototype or a single rogue jeweler. Still rare, but more than the previous estimate of 6 - 12 will be available, which fits with the general consensus. So these watches are a genuine Omega offering, and were for sale for a short period of time to the public. Neat stuff. Do you guys reckon this might have been the first Omega model to feature a display back? I'd be interested to hear if there was anything sooner.
I'm so glad that someone has been able to find definitive proof that these were not "salesman's samples". I've always felt that there were too many of these around for that. Omega's records still have a lot of gaps, particularly when it comes to models that were only sold outside of Switzerland, like this one. Thanks so much, Zach, for your dedicated research, gatorcpa
Very interesting indeed, and the advertisements do indeed demonstrate that these watch were sold at retail. My original sources for the "salesman" angle, apart from the guy about whom I wrote the essay on these, were John Diethelm and Tim Mackrain. Tim had a box, together with instructions on how these watches were to be presented to retailers. A Norman Morris document I would imagine. I can only speculate that maybe this boxed piece preceded the retail release. I haven't looked into this for a long time, but none of the the examples I encountered had a model number stamped on them. I note in HJs list he gives it the case number 6292VB and sources John Diethelm too. Interesting because it was John who said that these were not for sale and I note HJ also inluded NFS in his remarks. Ah well, mystery solved and more power to your elbow Zac for your tenacity in following the story through. I will have to amend the essay and will credit you. Regards Desmond
I had always thought that the above was the case with these watches. Also true. My thought here was that the original intention was for Norman Morris to provide these only to dealers as demonstrators...at least at first. This would explain Omega's notations of "not for sale". Then when enough customers wanted to buy these Kleerbacks off the showroom floor, he commissioned the US based casemaker to make some more for general sale at a decent premium ($135 vs. $95 for the steel backed cases). I've not seen one of these in person, but my understanding is that there is a general gold-filled hallmark on the outside of the case, but no manufacturer's mark. Learn something new every day, gatorcpa
Hi Folks, I recently picked up a Seamaster De Ville Kleerback after coming across this thread. I was skeptical to purchase it at first as I thought it was some sort of cobbled together piece. But after reading through the links and articles I’m glad I did. Appreciate all the hard work and research that went into that! Thank you! She’s a beauty. Seems to be all original. Dial is super clean, you can just see the Omega logo on the crystal as well. Gold plated case has seen better days but to be expected for how old it is. Since this was a thrift store purchase I feel confident that it is all original and not someone trying to pass it off and profit off of its provenance through the likes of eBay and such. Seems to run well, but not knowing the history I will be looking at getting it serviced soon. Which begs the question though, how do you access the movement? Through the front? Btw, as you may have noticed, this example has a 563 movement. I love the quickset feature of it! I believe Desmond’s article may have suggested these only had a 560. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks for viewing!
Hi all, Interesting coming back to this thread almost 6 years later. I ran across my first Kleerback (and created this thread) when I was fairly new to the watch collecting scene. I actually ended up selling my first Kleerback (quite regrettably) in the pursuit of changing tastes. But the Kleerback was the one watch I always regretted letting go, and so I have been on the hunt for a "clean" example pretty much ever since. I have just, quite happily, purchased the Kleerback above from Sport1000 (cheers mate). Will be great to have one in hand again, as I feel like this was an integral piece in my collecting journey. Anyways, as noted above, it looks like the first ever non-caliber 560 kleerback has surfaced. Cheers!
I would think that the movement in this watch was a replacement, as the Kleerbacks were produced for only a short time prior to the introduction of the quick set automatic movements in 1965-66. For a watch like this, it’s likely not that big a deal, since you are paying for the special case, not the movement. Looks very nice. gatorcpa
Thanks for reply gatorcpa! Sorry for circling back so late. Life kinda got in the way of catching up on watch stuff. Seeing as that add above was from 1967 and the 563 was available a year or so prior, couldn’t it still be a possibility that this movement was original to the watch and not a replacement? Like you said, not a biggie, but it would be nice to know that it may be original.
Well, I paid for the Extract of the Archives and unfortunately was told by Omega they can't find one for my watch Oh well, it's anybody's guess as to whether the 563 in mine was an original movement option or not. Here's the exact response: Dear Sir/madam, Due to the nature of vintage archives in certain cases information has not survived, is unreadable or even missing. We regret to inform you that unfortunately the provided serial number (25.260.854) falls onto that category, so we are unable to issue an Extract of the Archives. We apologize for this inconvenience and remain at your disposal for any assistance. Best regards, Sincerely, Maryanne Meyers-Duda Representative / Customer Service
After reading through this thread, I realized that I, too, have a Kleerback model stuffed into my display case. Bought nearly 30 years ago, I always thought that the back was just fitted with a crystal for a salesman sample! Movement is indeed a cal 560 with a 1964 serial and marked "adjusted two (2) positions". Thanks guys for the research and postings. Here's a couple of mediocre pics of mine.