Hi I have you ask you guys for advice again. I've gotten some pictures of a Chronograph Suisse. Apparently 18k. Don't know too much about this other than I think it has a Landeron something-caliber. Seller wants $800 for it. Crappy pictures. I guess good pictures are key to sell something, but obviously, someone thinks differently. What do you think?
Thanks for the post. I used to think I wanted to acquire an 18kt rose gold Chronographe Suisse model with a 37mm case and Arabic numerals. Then I read that the watches were a bit of a turkey, mainly because of the cases. Would be nice to read of some knowledgeable opinions on this thread topic.
Looks like a Landeron 48, or 148 style. Both are pretty decent chronograph movements. Although like all chronographs, they are expensive to service. The 18K case is extremely thin and the lugs are hollow. The movement is supported above and below by two brass rings attached to the inside of the case. These watches generally have a dust cover between the back case and the movement. It is critical that you have this piece, as it holds the entire structure together. Otherwise, the soft and thin gold will distort, the support rings will come loose and eventually, the whole watch will fall apart. Not good! I know this from experience. I bought a cheapie for about $150, but it took three trips across the country and twice over the purchase price to sort it out. Even with all that, I'm still in it for a lot less than $800. I think this is a lot to pay for this watch unless it is in perfect condition and serviced. And we all know to be very wary of watches that sellers claim to be serviced. Good luck, gatorcpa
Chronographe Swiss watches were something of the cut rate producer of their day. They took every possible manufacturing shortcut to deliver a cheap watch largely for the vacationer market. That is, ignorant folks vacationing in Switzerland who wanted to bring home a "fine" Swiss watch. They barely held up in their own era, much less decades later. I'd suggest that there are better uses for your watch funds.
Good information here for those of us who have only seen these watches in photographs while observing the high starting bid prices asked on the typical Ebay auction. Are there any good values in 18kt gold 1940s/1950s chronographs of similar style? What brands should one seek? I'm keen on the Longines chronographs of the era but prices have really accelerated upward in recent times. Could 'a, should 'a, would 'a ... But didn't buy one back when.
Short answer is no. These are among the most desirable collectors watches out there. In this area, you need to pay to play. One brand of chronograph that I've seen on occasion with somewhat reasonable pricing is Tissot. These generally have a variant of the Lemania movements found in the Moonwatch. Since Tissot was generally considered the "little brother" of Omega, 18k examples are hard to find. gatorcpa
Byron and Evan (woodwkr2 and gatorcpa, respectively) summed it up well (Dennis and others, too!) There were some true "NOS" CS's which seemed to appear out of nowhere around 2 years ago, when gold was topping out.They were trading over USD 1000 at the time, which is most likely, the most these watches will ever buy/sell for. So, that's most likely your "upside". These are not bad looking watches. Frankly, they're good looking. But, they're no Patek Phillipe lol. The dials have generally held up well, which should mean something??? The cases are indeed tissue thin but, nobody knows this save for watch nuts like us. The watch "wears" modern sized on the wrist. The lugs are hollow and will dent and ding if abused (even gently). I bought what I consider to be a pretty close to collector + condition as part of a (2) watch trade ( and, future considerations). Paid exactly 500 USD. Would I sell it or more than that if I could? Maybe. I never used to sell anything but that recently changed. I'm not sure if my watch is better than the one you showed for 800 but, it's definitely not worse. You hit the nail right the head when characterizing this particular watch and it's 40 different but the same incarnations: $2500 or so is the cover charge for gold chronos so a lot of rationalizing starts to occur under a grand. I think the take-away here is if you have an itch you can scratch it but buy low and consider it a place to park watch money until you find a serious SG chrono. DOXA, Eberhard and Tissot are places you can start looking. Our own Modest_Proposal (Dave) sold a sweet complete set SG Omega (I think it's a 321, no?) recently for somewhere around and probably over 2g's. That was a score! I would have grabbed it in a heartbeat but I had just purchased his Gallet Decimal (funny story attached to this transaction!!) and I collect Gallet and his Decimal was a great find for me. When she's done I think it'll be an honest 9-9.5/10 and he sold it for a really fair price but that's another story...I guess I already told it hahahaha Further: David is a great guy and a serious, knowledgable watch collector!!!! He's got lots of hidden inland empire treasures. I'll attach a couple pics of my CS. It keeps perfect time and she's very quiet (Landeron's can be little noise makers but this one is the "upgraded" 149 or 150 (the last one) and it's whisper quiet. Seriously: It runs perfectly. I paid 500. If you really want one I'll consider an offer of more than 500. It doesn't have to be much more...I do know for certain that these watches have sold for $1000+ They've also probably sold for a lot less than 500 lol
If you don't mind, I'll continue babbling on a bit. There are always "deals" out there. Always. What you need to do as buyer is put yourself out there and network, as opposed to chasing down google search leads from sellers. The objectively and subjectively best SG chrono deal I ever pulled the trigger on, came to me. For many years, I had built up a relationship with the nicest fellow in the world, a guy named John (RIP), who woke up feeling good one day and a couple hours later was asked to come to his primary doctors office upon arriving was informed that had some untreatable rare form of that devil shit cancer and he few months to live, at best. John and I did business together for years; nothing to do with watches, he was a P.I. who collected expensive, rare things. Usually it was barter stuff for financial autopsies for his local DA's office and some Crim Defense lawyers. He had around a dozen or so gold chronographs and gold Dive watches some of which were out of my league. He always told me these were "the best watch investments" he was right! So, he knew I liked watches and he graciously offered me one or two watches because he didn't want his "idiot son-in-law" pawning them off for a jet ski. I promised him I would give them to my son or daughter and I'd try not to let my kids become idiots. One of the watches I purchased from John was a WG fifty fathoms in un-worn condition. That watch is...boss. The other was an uber rare 1941 Ulysee Nardin single button RG, 2 reg chrono. It's a souped up cal. 22 or 23. The dial is 3 or 4mm thick of solid copper and the registers are hand ground. He sold me both watches for their gold weight (he was a bit of gold bug Surprisingly (or, not?) The UN is heavy as a brick. I don't know much about UN ( nobody seems to) I had my watchmaker break it down and the case weighs somewhere around 65 grams! When you put it all back together the whole she-bang weighs close 3.5 ounces. This watch is insanely "dense". More so than Rolex Day / Date. It's 38.5 mm x 15.5 mm which is monstrous proportions for that time and year. I've tried to figure out what the UN is worth; (cause I'm a dirtbag) the closest I got to an estimate was from Steve @ Tarrytown and it was "a lot". I know...helpful. He says the only way to truly know would be to auction it through one of the big houses. There just aren't really any comps. Supposedly, they only made a few of these. Literally, a few. It's true rare but UN doesn't have a highly organized after market. The only negative is that case has been polished and dial has a slight imperfection which I'm told is generally acceptable for copper dials. It's by no means anywhere near mint. Doesn't matter, I promised I would keep it. Anyway, this is a long story and it's getting really boring. My point was the watch came-to-me and I paid 1250 (gold was 800 or 900 back then) for one of nicest solid gold chronographs I've ever seen. And, this bad boy is solid., I didn't find either watch, they found me. BTW / That fifty fathoms is one of the nicest watches, period. I'd never let that thing get 200 feet near the ocean, much less in it. Lol. I'm such a piker!! The gold UN makes even the most jaded and cynical watch guy drool just a little. I never wear it (sorry for being impure lol). Actually, I did wear it to a wedding a couple / few years ago...I stared (admired) it the entire day, night instead of my pretty wife. That's never a good move, slick. I've posted pics of it from the day of that wedding, here she is (the watch!) I told you, it's a nice fcuking watch.
Two great rambling posts @citizenrich Do I detect the encouragement of Jura of equivalent in there (usually works for me). Cheers, Chris
I agree with everything said above about most of the the cases being very thin, hence the onion skin nickname for these. But not all the cases are the same, I have a one in RG which doesn´t have the inner dust cover and does have a substantially thicker case back. It also doesn´t have those skinny stick hands which I don´t find very attractive, but a slightly more triangular handset which give the watch more style and balance. It was one of my first vintage watches, my first vintage chrono and my first vintage 18KT RG, for all those reasons I was in love with this one for a long, long time and still wear it occasionally. When I do it always brings a smile to my face. I would say if you find a good one at a decent price then they really can´t be beaten for value for money, although I wouldn´t pay $800 for the OP´s example.
lol I work in a live music club and we closed a little last night. I hate driving home with the drunks so I locked myself in the office with some good booze and ice and started playing on the inter tubes. good call! hopefully, I can leave a little earlier tonight. Otherwise, be on the lookout for 4:00am drunk posts...
Hi all, Not wanting to hijack this thread but didn't want to make a new one as i'm asking similar questions. Came across the below watch which im in love with due to the clean face. I know the images are rubbish so im waiting on new ones tonight from the seller. Seller has been honest and said "starts but needs servicing. sub dial doesn't reset. Crown feels a little loose when adjusting the time. The seconds hand is also slightly bent " I can get it for close to £250 which i think is a deal though after servicing and getting it back to it's former glory is it worth it?
As you can see, the case back is very thin gold. In one of the pictures above there are what look like two case backs and the second one - made of a base metal - fits to the case underneath the gold one. This provides some of the structural rigidity for the case and without it, the gold back is prone to popping off as it is so thin and flexes easily. The case itself is effectively hollow, being made from what I would call, sheet gold so the ring you see in your seller's photo, with METAL stamped on it has a similar one on the other side of the movement. Between them, they provide the rigidity for the case. They were cheap watches when they were made and probably not intended to last anyway near as long as they have.
Hey everyone, inherited this from my grandfather and would like to have it overhauled/refurbished. As the pictures show, in need of some repair. What is a roundabout figure to completely r/r? Waste of time or a break even scenario?
Send an e-mail to Craig Bergsma via his website: http://www.chronodeco.com He is a specialist in these watches. gatorcpa
I had a few of these thin cased gold chronographs before and as what everyone has said, it is very fragile and can easily be dented. The landeron movement is quite reliable. IMHO, its a very good looking watch specially the dial with that vintage design. If you must have one of these, make sure you get the one with a mint conditioned case, crown and pushers. A black dial although harder to find is desirable.