Zenith Short Lists

LouS · Nov 27, 2012

OK, fellows, let's see 'em - Zenith short lists - the five Zenith grails that you would pull out all the stops to acquire.

Here's mine
1. that square cal 133.8 chronometer Rossler has at the upper left on page 121. Held one of these once, but walked away...kicking myself ever since.

2. a cal 146 H external bezel chronograph ref A 277

(ATG vintage watches)

3. A deep diver, for heavens' sake a deep diver. Yellow, orange, Black, red, these keep slipping through my fingers. The last was an orange on blue one that broke my heart.

4. a cushion cased, internel bezel three hand diver watch (A 3635)...you know, the one with the metallic grey dial

5. the 18K gold cal 135 with the coffin-shaped hour markers

(can't remember the pic attribution)
..and finally...
5a. the prototype Primero PHF in an A 386 case that the manufacture outbid us for at Christies this past spring (37500 Swiss francs - damn you deep pockets! - and kudos to the collector who kept the pace to that point and made them pay for it - you know who you are)

522176_327322590673901_109608995778596_790236_2110709643_n.jpg

Fire away with yours

ulackfocus · Nov 27, 2012

I don't have 5. I really only have one - that 37 mm model that they just made the homage / reissue of. And despite my serious bias towards vintage, I might even prefer the new one. After trying it on in NYC with Lou, Tommy, Greg, and the gang at last year's Timekeepers show it's stuck in my head. I think it could be a serious candidate to be worn with business casual or on a day off with jeans because of the color of the subdials.

LouS · Nov 27, 2012

That would be the A 386

It's my routine answer to the "If you could only have one watch" threads

Gavin · Nov 27, 2012

Dennis, if you're interested, there's one of that selling here.

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?page=1;md=read;id=25881

LouS · Nov 27, 2012

Gavin
Dennis, if you're interested, there's one of that selling here.

http://chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?page=1;md=read;id=25881

The tachymeter is a little wonky on that one. Compare with the one I posted. The only other one I've seen with the horizonal (instead of circumferential) writing is on the prototype above.

Gavin · Nov 27, 2012

LouS
The tachymeter is a little wonky on that one. Compare with the one I posted. The only other one I've seen with the horizonal (instead of circumferential) writing is on the prototype above.

So much to learn.👍

cicindela · Nov 28, 2012

Short list: Any Zenith that Lou deemed worthy to own. I think that covers it.

MMMD · Nov 28, 2012

Here are my current five :

1. The A386 (see above). An obvious choice, yes, but such an iconic crystallization of the stylistic and mechanical genius of the Manufacture. Unfortunately, this watch seems to have made its way onto innumerable collectors' short lists, even those that don't include any other Zeniths, so it's a tough get, but... stay tuned...

2. The A3818: The "Cover Girl" (you elusive little vixen... you will be mine). Another icon. The one angled-tonneau El Primero I gotta have. The kind of watch that can transform an unsuspecting estate-sale browser into a full-blown Zenithoholic.

3. Almost anything gold that says chronometre. The uniquer the better. Unfortunately, this one sold before I could make my play.

4. Zenith "Sextant", Rössler, p.224 (aka Gallet MultiChron Navigator). Because sometimes you need a mechanical-watch-based compass that only works when the sun is shining.

5. The G 20672 "Urdefy" (Rössler, p. 151)... basically a solid gold version of this, with gold bracelet and dial. Even better, the similar gold Urdefy on p. 152, with the crown at 4 o'clock. Do these watches even exist? Has anyone ever seen one? Why in hell are they not on LouS's short list? Has he already squirreled one away somewhere?

dsio · Nov 29, 2012

MMMD
Here are my current five :

1. The A386 (see above). An obvious choice, yes, but such an iconic crystallization of the stylistic and mechanical genius of the Manufacture. Unfortunately, this watch seems to have made its way onto innumerable collectors' short lists, even those that don't include any other Zeniths, so it's a tough get, but... stay tuned...

2. The A3818: The "Cover Girl" (you elusive little vixen... you will be mine). Another icon. The one angled-tonneau El Primero I gotta have. The kind of watch that can transform an unsuspecting estate-sale browser into a full-blown Zenithoholic.

3. Almost anything gold that says chronometre. The uniquer the better. Unfortunately, this one sold before I could make my play.

4. Zenith "Sextant", Rössler, p.224 (aka Gallet MultiChron Navigator). Because sometimes you need a mechanical-watch-based compass that only works when the sun is shining.

5. The G 20672 "Urdefy" (Rössler, p. 151)... basically a solid gold version of this, with gold bracelet and dial. Even better, the similar gold Urdefy on p. 152, with the crown at 4 o'clock. Do these watches even exist? Has anyone ever seen one? Why in hell are they not on LouS's short list? Has he already squirreled one away somewhere?

Number 3 looks badass! Looks like a companion to the Constellation De Luxe / Grand Luxe

CanberraOmega · Nov 29, 2012

dsio
Number 3 looks badass! Looks like a companion to the Constellation De Luxe / Grand Luxe

+1

I vote we shut down the Zenuth forum - I'm concerned it is going to cost me too much! Up until recently, I've only looked at omegas, and now I'm looking at zeniths, longines (tried on their new conquest in store yesterday) and even lord elgins.....

dsio · Nov 29, 2012

CanberraOmega
+1

I vote we shut down the Zenuth forum - I'm concerned it is going to cost me too much! Up until recently, I've only looked at omegas, and now I'm looking at zeniths, longines (tried on their new conquest in store yesterday) and even lord elgins.....

The Lord Elgins posted the other day look absolutely awesome... BUT, if you wear them in public, someone's going to mistake you for a 1940s comic book hero's alter-ego, they're that crazy looking.

Its what you'd expect Kit Walker to wear (The Phantom for those less enlightened)

CanberraOmega · Nov 29, 2012

dsio
The Lord Elgins posted the other day look absolutely awesome... BUT, if you wear them in public, someone's going to mistake you for a 1940s comic book hero's alter-ego, they're that crazy looking.

Its what you'd expect Kit Walker to wear (The Phantom for those less enlightened)

Challenge accepted!!!

Now I just need to find one in decent condition.

Privateday7 · Nov 29, 2012

CanberraOmega
+1

I vote we shut down the Zenuth forum - I'm concerned it is going to cost me too much! Up until recently, I've only looked at omegas, and now I'm looking at zeniths, longines (tried on their new conquest in store yesterday) and even lord elgins.....

You are very right............I came to this forum try to be disciplined with only one brand......limit budget etc....etc...... The other brand forum has already make me drooling over JLC triple date. Now this zenith forum make me dreaming...........el primero........el primero..........elprimero 😁

LouS · Nov 29, 2012

MMMD
3. Almost anything gold that says chronometre. The uniquer the better. Unfortunately, this one sold before I could make my play.

5. The G 20672 "Urdefy" (Rössler, p. 151)... basically a solid gold version of this, with gold bracelet and dial. Even better, the similar gold Urdefy on p. 152, with the crown at 4 o'clock. Do these watches even exist? Has anyone ever seen one? Why in hell are they not on LouS's short list? Has he already squirreled one away somewhere?

Quite the goldbug, aren't you?

I have not got an Ur-Defy in gold. In fact, I have only heard one word of mouth report of one, and never seen one myself. I suspect that between the vast amount of gold in that watch and the case that is definitely an acquired taste, many of these have been melted down. I have seen two dials & movements from the G 20672 on Ebay, with all the gold bits long gone. A moment of silence please....

Veritas99 · Dec 5, 2012

My list of five has a bit of overlap with some of the others here (inevitably), and I'd love add the prototype but unless the other 23 show up miraculously it stays off the list. Apologies to LouS, whose images I've stolen for most of these, and who basically has a living catalog of El Primeros.

1. A386 - No idea why I don't own one by now. Lost one this year by 5 minutes (2 offers, seller countered to us both and I was second to accept).

2. A3817 - Seems to be harder to find than its more glamorous sister, the A3818.

3. A3637 - The Big Lemon. I've seen 4 or 5 floating around, but never for sale.

4.A7817 - From the original series of 300.

5. Not a watch. I'd love a Marine chronometer with 5011K movement (or alternatively, one of the observatory models with a Cal. 261).

51769d1181367221-how-about-header-zenith-forum-5011k-small.jpg

LouS · Dec 6, 2012

Conservative choices, but very very solid. The 5011K marine chronometer is an excellent choice, very inspired.

If you get two deep divers before I get one, I'll bust an aneurysm

Regarding your number one:

Stewart H · Dec 7, 2012

Good evening All (well it is here in the UK)

Firstly thanks to Chris for sending me here - now I know where all the WUS refugees lurk.

For me, the grail is a gold 71 Chronometre. Whilst I have formulated a wish list, I have also decided on a plan. From a collection/investment perspective, a gold version is the best outcome and I have decided to "bank" the items on my wanted list and then upgrade from there. Hence my recent acquisition of a steel 71 with, what can only be described as an interesting second hand. My problem is that I can't bring myself to sell a watch (well the 1997 quartz Breitling may prove the exception here)

Another example is a broken 133.8 Chronometre I picked up as a "project watch". As soon as I bought a NOS balance (an obsolete part) and a donor "Frankenbumper" I found a gold 133,8 Chronometre in reasonable condition - well it had to be done.

As you can see, I have a bit of a "thing" for the bumpers and a lot of the ones you see have a problem with the running of the oscillating weight that leads to scoring of the weight from one of the winding wheels. My next purchases will be one of the service weights so that I can examine a new bearing and a watchmaker's lathe so that I can try to make the obsolete part - watch this space.

Lex4TDI4Life · Dec 7, 2012

Stewart H
Another example is a broken 133.8 Chronometre I picked up as a "project watch". As soon as I bought a NOS balance (an obsolete part) and a donor "Frankenbumper" I found a gold 133,8 Chronometre in reasonable condition - well it had to be done.

As you can see, I have a bit of a "thing" for the bumpers and a lot of the ones you see have a problem with the running of the oscillating weight that leads to scoring of the weight from one of the winding wheels. My next purchases will be one of the service weights so that I can examine a new bearing and a watchmaker's lathe so that I can try to make the obsolete part - watch this space.

I just happened to snag a 133.8 off of eBay and was hoping for some insight.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271048339444?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Are all 133.8's chronometers? If so, did some dials go unlabeled as such?
Should I have it serviced more frequently to prevent scoring of the weight or am I just stuck with a time bomb?

Stewart H · Dec 7, 2012

Zenith made a non-chronometre version of the 133.8 and a chronometre version. Some chronometres are signed on the dial and some on both the dial and the oscillating weight.

I don't believe you are sitting on a ticking time bomb. The watch is between 50 and 60 years old and the condition will depend on the maintenamce that has been carried out in its life up to now. 50 years ago, all oils were mineral based and thickened up/ lost their lubricating properties much more quickly that the modern synthetic lubricants. Hence the fact that you needed to get a watch serviced with much more frequency then than you do now.

At the end of the day, it is a vintage watch rather than the daily wearer that it was probably bought for originally. As such, you are going to put much less stress on the movement than the previous owners. Any damage caused by the weight running out of true should be minimal but friction between two metal surfaces will inevitably produce debris of some description. My advice would be to get the watch serviced by a reputable watchmaker and he will tell you if there are any lurking issues or will provide you with peace of mind.

MMMD · Dec 7, 2012

All 133.8's are not chronometres, strictly speaking, as most were never certified, but all have chronometre potential, i.e. the 133.8 is capable of chronometre-level performance without modification. The same is true of several other Zenith calibres sometimes certified as chronometres, such as 71, 40T, many of the 25x2 calibres. The cal 135 was usually certified and signed "chronometre" on the movement, though there are some 135s out there without "chronometre" inscribed on the movement. To confuse things further, movements were sometimes certified as chronometres but not labeled as such on the movement.
Don't know about the scoring issue.

***EDIT*** Didn't see Stewart H' s response when typing this up.

Zenith Short Lists

LouS

ulackfocus

LouS

Gavin

LouS

Gavin

cicindela

MMMD

dsio

CanberraOmega

dsio

CanberraOmega

Privateday7

LouS

Veritas99

LouS

Stewart H

Lex4TDI4Life

Stewart H

MMMD

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