Evening all,

Hope everyone is having a nice night. Does anyone have any experience with the new 45th anniversary titanium moon watch? I'm particularly interested in the quality of the 1861 movement. Is it based on the 321? Do the chrono pushers feel solid and is there any sort of lag between pushing them and the chrono engaging?

In other words, is this a solidly built movement? I really like the look of the piece but I'm concerned about the movement. Any thoughts are most appreciated, thank you very much. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Yours,

Chris

 

Hi dsio,

Thanks very much for responding, I appreciate that. I've read quite a bit about the co-axial escapement and was just worried that this 1861 was a lesser quality movement by comparison. At $7,700 the watch is not inexpensive but it would be made even more pricey if the movement was just average.

Thank you again.

Chris

 

dsio,

Thank you again for the information on the 1861 movement.

It is Lemania derived but is it an ETA movement? I know that Lemania no longer supplies movements to Omega. Where is the 1861 physically coming from, what manufacturer?

This may seem silly to be this concerned about the movement but I've read a lot about some highly regarded Omega movements over the years, (30T2, etc) and when I buy this next piece (my first new Omega, I've owned a Big Blue and a Flightmaster) I really want to get something robust and sound.

Any further information you can provide or any direction you can point me is most appreciated, thank you again. Take good care.

Yours,

Chris

 

Google Chuck Maddox or www.chronomaddox.com will have more on the 1861 than you can take in.

 

Thank you standy, and you too dsio, I sincerely appreciate your 1861 thoughts. Just to confirm the new movement is based on the original 321, not the 861, yes? Is there any worry about a non column wheel movement?

 

I read a bit of what Chuck Maddox wrote and was really impressed. Does this new movement have any of the plastic parts that made up the original 861?

 

As diso said above very reliable. To me this is a bulletproof movement that has stood the test of time. Any changes to plastic parts have been for friction wear reasons ( archer may explain better). I have both the 861 and 1861 and have had no issues with either. All post 321speedmasters have these and you know how many of these have sold over the years...

Most watchmakers can service these which is a bonus to the way Omega is heading...

 

Hi cgreen

I have this watch, just purchased and took possession of it on Sunday (the actual 45th anniversary day!).

Others have already commented on the movement, and provided links to much more detailed information. For many of us, the 321/861/1861 is the iconic calibre for the Speedmaster, and feel its not a Speedmaster unless its got this legacy manual winding movement. I have a 321 Speedmaster (1967) that is as good today as the day it was purchased. Servicing the movement is readily available, so your investment is protected. To summarize, it will run longer than you will. On the caseback of this watch is inscribed "FLIGHT QUALIFIED BY NASA FOR ALL MANNED SPACE MISSIONS". Omega Speedmaster calibre 321 was chosen by NASA because they believed in this particular movement... that's good enough for me

So, here's my take on the pushers and chronograph function on this model: I find the pushers to have a very solid feel, the upper engagement pusher (aka Pusher A) moves in effortlessly for the first half of the travel and then you have a distinctive wall, engaging the pusher is a solid *snap*, at which point the chrono seconds hand immediately starts moving, I see no delay, if anything, the chrono hand "jumps" forward. Reset via Pusher B feels the same to me, very solid engagement, all functions reset to 0 immediate upon the button push.

Last, the watch is gorgeous - JUST DO IT!! Good Luck!

Repo

 

Wow, Standy, dsio and Repoman,

You guys are awesome, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. This all started because I really like the look of the watch but I've not been able to find any solid information on the 1861movment (prior to being directed to Chuck's site) as it pertains to this particular anniversary piece.

It seems that in titanium on a heavy nylon NATO the watch will be extremely wearable and could withstand daily use without any trouble at all.

And speaking of titanium, I believe this piece uses grade 2 (or commercially pure) titanium. I'm from the "if a little is good a lot must be better" school, so if grade two is good then grade 38 must be best and Omega should have used that. It's a terrible habit, sometimes.

Anyway, I've done a bit of research and it looks to me that grade 5 is the most widely used titanium in the aerospace, automobile and nautical industries because of it's hardening factor after heating, and in part due to its heat resistance of up to 400 degrees Celsius. I'm guessing that grade 2 is still harder and lighter than steel and that if I was ever in a situation where I was worried about seriously damaging grade 2 titanium I should probably be thinking of my own safety first.

I appreciate your thoughts, I truly do. This community is really terrific and one of the things that makes collecting and scheme-ing for watches so fun. Have a great day. I'll let you know when I land one. In the meantime, if anyone has a wristshot I'd be grateful. Take care.

Chris

 

http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=101&E=266

More used for corrosion resistance, CP Ti is only graded from 1 to 4



Grade 2 is widely used because it combines excellent formability and moderate strength with superior corrosion resistance. This combination of properties makes CP Grade 2 titanium a candidate for a large variety of chemical and marine as well as aerospace and medical applications.




The corrosion resistance of CP Ti Grade 2 is based on the presence of a stable, continuous, tightly adherent oxide layer. This layer forms spontaneously and immediately upon exposure to oxygen. If damaged, it re-forms readily as long as there is some source of oxygen (air or moisture) in the environment. In general, the higher the purity of CP Ti, the greater the corrosion resistance. CP Ti Grade 2, with its relatively low impurity levels, has been widely used because it is capable of performing well in many corrosion-critical applications such as marine environments and chemical processing. In seawater, it is fully resistant to corrosion at temperatures up to 315ºC (600ºF). The possibility of crevice corrosion must be considered, however, and components appropriately designed to avoid tight crevices.

CP Ti Grade 2 is highly resistant to many chemical environments including oxidizing media, alkaline media, organic compounds and acids, aqueous salt solutions, and wet or dry hot gases. It also has sufficient corrosion resistance in liquid metals, nitric acid, mildly reducing acids, and wet chlorine or bromine gas (as long as a minimal amount of oxygen or water is present).

Conditions under which CP Ti Grade 2 is susceptible to corrosion are strongly reducing acids, alkaline peroxide solutions, and molten chloride salts. Crevice corrosion can occur in hot halide or sulfate solutions (>1000 ppm at 75ºC or higher), which can be a consideration in marine applications.

CP Ti Grade 2 is fully resistant to stress-corrosion cracking (SCC) in aqueous solutions, and is largely immune to SCC in general. Conditions under which CP Ti Grade 2 is susceptible to SCC include anhydrous methanol or methanol/halide solutions, red fuming nitric acid, nitrous oxide, liquid or solid cadmium and liquid mercury.

 

STANDY,

That's amazing, thank you. If I gather what you're saying correctly, grade 2 titanium is more than sufficient for wristwatch cases. Omega could have done overkill and used grade 5 but it would have significant increased the price and not really brought a noticeable benefit to the case, yes?

 

Oh, gotcha, thank you. I think the color is great. I'm sold on the watch, thank you very much you've all been just terrific with this. I'll let you know. Have a great day.

Chris

 

Regarding the Titanium bracelet, which contains parts with grade 2 (just like the watch case) and grade 5: after two months, the shading of grade 2 and grade 5 is still nearly the same: