Your opinion about 1960 Longines

[azazello444]

Dear fellow hobbyists,

I'm glad to find this forum and read so much useful information. I want to ask for your opinion about a Longines watch that I recently acquired. I'm a beginner with no experience in identifying all the details and markers of authenticity hence I would appreciate your time reviewing it and telling what you think.

First of all, I checked the serial number that is stamped on the movement (23z) and it looks to have been produced in 1960. However, I have a problem with the dial and the case, those look to me not original.

1. The dial looks a bit weird, mostly the seconds dial does not look right. Also, the attached "wings" logo is a bit not aligned, it might be shifted (not sure how it is attached though) or just poorly fabricated. I tried to search the Internet for a similar dial but I didn't find anything, I cannot find any model that has such a dial and only 12 and 6 Arabic numbers, most of the similar models have either even numbers like 2,4,6, etc, or 12,3,6,9.

2. the case also looks a bit weird, I found similar models (minor dial differences) and the case shape is a bit different, it is a bit more curly than other contemporary models, not sure if that means anything...

3. The back cover looks authentic (at least to me) but I am not sure if the reference # stamped on it corresponds to the serial number of the movement or it was mixed and matched by a watchmaker. Is there a way to check it online? I could find only serial number databases but nothing that could correlate the reference number to the serial number, any suggestions on this?

4. The hands... the color of the hands is light gold but the bars on the dial are more rose/copper shade. I'm not an expert on vintage Longines watch styles but It is a bit weird to have copper-colored digits with gold-colored hands in a silver/chromium case, isn't it?

5. Lastly, the crown.. its color is slightly different than the case, but not too much so I'm not sure about this one. As far as I know in the 1950s/1960s the crowns didn't have the logo stamped on it. Any idea on this?

I'd appreciate it if you could share your opinion on this watch. Although it is postfactum and I already acquired this watch, I'm really curious to find out more details/history about it.

I attached the pictures,

Many thanks in advance,

Edited: Feb 2, 2024

 

[Tony C.]

A poor redial, and replacement crown.

 

[Syrte]

Welcome to the forum, your instincts about the misaligned parts of the dial was correct.
Also, I agree there’s an apparent discrepancy between the date of the movement serial number and the style of the case, as it looks more like a late 1940s or early 1950s case, which means the movement could have been transplanted into an older watch.
This unfortunately means your watch does not hold value as a collectable. If it was sold to you as all original, that statement was incorrect and misleading and you should pursue a return and a refund.
Otherwise… let’s just hope you did not pay too much- and you should feel free to post before you purchase if there’s a next time.

 

[azazello444]

Tony C.

A poor redial, and replacement crown.

Thank you Tony, any idea about what model this was originally? What about the case, does it look to be original or also a replacement?

 

[azazello444]

Syrte

Welcome to the forum, your instincts about the misaligned parts of the dial was correct.
Also, I agree there’s an apparent discrepancy between the date of the movement serial number and the style of the case, as it looks more like a late 1940s or early 1950s case, which means the movement could have been transplanted into an older watch.
This unfortunately means your watch does not hold value as a collectable. If it was sold to you as all original, that statement was incorrect and misleading and you should pursue a return and a refund.
Otherwise… let’s just hope you did not pay too much- and you should feel free to post before you purchase if there’s a next time.

Thanks, Syrte for your feedback, unfortunately, I do not have any way to return it but it is fine, although it will not fit the collection, I will just happily use it.

Sorry for the newbie question but what usually redialing involves, is it just cleaning/reprinting the original dial or the dial can be from a different watch or even a producer that had paint fully removed and reprinted from scratch? I wonder if at all this dial has anything original like a logo or number/bars from Longines?

 

[Syrte]

Usually a refinished dial was just stripped and repainted but that is enough to remove about 80% of the value of the watch.

 

[Dan S]

In all likelihood, the watch is legit (except for the crown), but with a repainted dial. If you want to know more about it, you can file a request for historical information through the Longines website.

 

[azazello444]

Dan S

In all likelihood, the watch is legit (except for the crown), but with a repainted dial. If you want to know more about it, you can file a request for historical information through the Longines website.

Thanks for your feedback, I opened a request on the Logines website, let's see what they come back with

I will try to get an old original crown somewhere online, I saw some sold on ebay. Can you possibly suggest what type of crowns were used during 1950s/1960s on similar models, did they have just a logo or logo+longines text (see attached pictures). Also need to make sure the size will fit.

 

[Dan S]

Given the state of the dial, I would not recommend putting any time or money into upgrading the crown. Lipstick on a pig.