I would love some input on a watch I'm attempting to identify, and this seems to be the best place on the Internet for gleaning such information!

First, a bit of background. I have, in the last year, developed an interest in watches; and from that, an interest in Omegas (spawned by the Speedmaster Professional ‘moon watch’). Following my new-found interest in Omegas, and in turn a want to own one; I started browsing eBay for used items. This is where I started looking at vintage Omegas, but never quite had the disposable income to invest in one.

Recently, at a family member’s house I opened a drawer and found this! (along with an Ingersoll Triumph pocket watch) Having previously trawled eBay for vintage Omegas, I was 100% sure I could identify the watch without much hassle. It was at that point I discovered how much I really knew about vintage Omegas, and now, I'm here pleading for information. I know little of its use, but I think it was a daily driver.

I would like to apologise firstly for the poor photos; they were taken in haste, with a phone, as an afterthought. I would like to apologise secondly for not removing the case back; I've never removed one from a watch like this, and didn't have the time to discover how to do so gently.

With that out of the way, I'll give you my assumptions so far, and with what I've provided see how close to the mark I am.

I assume (without seeing the movement or stamps) that it's genuine, it's manual wind and it's gold. The crown and strap I also assume are original, though the former has worn smooth. The face seems in fair condition, but the glass and metal are very scratched. I gave the watch a gentle wind and it immediately started ticking, with the sub second dial moving. It has certain features that I can't seem to find together in other vintage Omega photos: it has a full face of Arabic numerals, and in particular, it has a serif on the 7. The hands are slender, not ‘arrow’ shaped like most other models.

The closest I've come to identification is that it may be a late 50’s / early 60’s dress watch, possibly in a Dennison case (whatever that means). I’d like to know; if possible; the model, age and if the visible parts are original or appropriate. A ballpark valuation would be interesting, but not required. I will be able to provide a photo of the movement in a few weeks, if someone instructs me on the best way to remove the back.

Aside from begging for information, I've had a look into a few threads, and members here have some achingly beautiful watches, I'm very jealous! Thanks in advance for your help!

(Please click on the photos for full-sized images)

 

If you are in the UK, then yes, this looks like a late 1950s UK Dennison-cased Omega with a calibre 266 or 267 inside. It will be 9k solid gold, and you can just see the hallmark on the back of one of the lugs. The buckle could also be 9k gold from the look of it. The dial looks fine, but the hands are wrong I'm pretty certain - they should be gold 'dauphine' (dagger shaped) hands. A nice watch, just needs a bit of TLC

 

Thanks John, amazed you can see a hallmark on those pics! Yes, I'm in the UK; I don't know its history, but why would someone change the hands in the first place?

I agree the watch needs a bit of TLC, and ideally I'd like to bestow some upon it in the future. What would people suggest I do with it? I assume a service by a watchmaker is in order (though what this involves is unknown to me).

The biggest cosmetic issue is the scratched glass (I like metal with a bit of a patina); would it be worth trying to polish out the scrapes, or is a replacement a more cost/time effective solution? The strap looks in fairly good nick, just very dirty; I'd probably just clean it with a bit of leather stuff. (If I was doing some work on it, I'd probably not replace the strange hands)

 

Omega hands are often gilt (gold-plated brass) and they do corrode. However, I am not 100% sure that those are not the original hands, as some of the 1960s Dennisons did have index hands. Crystals (the 'glass') can be polished as they are resin but it is often more cost effective to replace them as part of a service. Yes, certainly have it serviced by a good watchmaker, which should cost you around £100 plus parts. That will involve dismantling, cleaning, re-assembly and lubrication of the movement.

Here is a link to a very good article about Dennison cased Omegas -

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ad1a11xcd37zc1f

A lot of this is specifically about Constellations, but there is plenty of general stuff too.

 

P.S. By the way, if you have never done it before, PLEASE don't go trying to prise the back off this watch. At least practice on an old beater watch first (or take the Omega to a pukka watchmaker and ask him/her to do it). It is scarily easy to mess this up and leave horrible scars on the watch case, especially a (soft) gold case like this. But the basic principle is this - you never try to immediately twist the blade or just prise the back off. You ROLL the case knife gently back and forth, opening up the gap by degrees. Once it has opened up, then yes, a gentle prise is fine, just to finish the job.

 

Indeed - you don't actually ever pry the back - at least I don't. You simply open the gap, and when it's ready, the back will come off on it's own....

Cheers, Al

 

Another by the way. You did ask about value. In nice condition, in the UK, these go for between £450 ish (low end) to £650 ish (high end). If the buckle is gold (look for a UK hallmark) that adds value. Box and papers will add a bit, and traders will of course often ask for more than these figures. Here is my calibre 267 1959 Dennison, for which I paid £475 -

 

Nice job, John.
Do you advise to refinish the gilt hands or leave as is ? I have a similar watch.


Mr. Last, I think a pint or two is in order for Mr. Smith!

 

Yes, thanks for that Evan. I have seen very late ones like this, too, but they are a bit unusual and tend to have the hour batons and no figures, like this photo. Thinking about it again, I am inclined to agree with you now, but until we know the movement calibre and serial number it is hard to be certain. So, Mr Last - do not order new hands, just yet! (the InvestiGator is usually spot-on)

 

My feeling is, that unless the hands are really bad just leave well alone. As soon as you refurbish one part of a watch it tends to stick out like a sore thumb, and re-plated or spanking new hands will then make the dial look shabby, when before it just looked nicely patinated. One important thing with a vintage watch is that it should look all of a piece, with all the component parts convincingly aged together. This is often the problem with replacement crowns - they just look too new.

 

That's a great resource, learnt a lot about the Dennison company and their identification marks!

Sound advice, I'll endeavour to be gentle and patient when I try to open it. Would something sharp and plastic be suitable to ease the gap open?

Thanks, that informs how generous the repair budget will be ;-) That's a beautiful watch, very clean.

Certainly! Any time you're in Northern Ireland John, beers are on me (might even stretch to a nice single malt if you're lucky).

That's heartening that the hands may be original, thanks! In my first round of Googling, I did see one 60's watch with slender hands.

Even if they were the wrong ones, they belong on the watch; but pleased to know they may be original. I'll definitely post a few photos of the serial/stamps and movement. Still intrigued that I've not seen a photo of another watch with the same collection of features.

I have to say, I quite like the face of numerals and the index hands; looks kind of like a gold military watch.

I'd love a military Omega:

 

Hello again; I've taken a few photos of inside the case back and the movement as promised in my 1st post.

I was unsuccessful at identifying the watch via the serial numbers, and I'm not sure what some of the numbers and letters refer to.

As always, any information you experts can provide is much appreciated!

(Please click on the photos for slightly larger images, apologies again for phone camera pictures)

 

Brilliant, all we need to know. The strap buckle is solid 9k gold to match the watch, so that is excellent and these buckles change hands for over £100 on eBay. The movement is a calibre 268 and the serial number 17,8xx,xxx dates it to 1960. So the index hands may well be correct, although this date is on the cusp of the changeover from dauphine. 373727 inside the caseback is the Dennison serial number, the last three digits of which (727) you can also see stamped on the case just next to the lug with the hallmark. So basically, everything adds up and checks out and you have a nice original Dennison Omega. The movement looks to be in good shape, too. Congratulations!

P.S. You won't find any of this stuff in the Omega Vintage Database, none of the English cased watches are in there.

P.P.S. The hallmark inside the caseback is from the Birmingham assay office, and as far as I can tell dates the case to 1965. This long gap between the movement date and the case assay seems to be quite common with Dennisons, mine is similar.

 

Lovely John, thanks! I knew the bit about the 3 digits on the case matching the Dennison serial, but that's about it. I'll assume the watch was sold in or after 1965 then. It amazes me the amount of information you can glean from a serial number and a hallmark.

Does anyone have a guess at the "MWF" on the inside of the buckle?

I forgot to mention; there is a very faint engraving on the right hand side of the case back. I was wondering if it's possibly watchmaker in origin, maybe a service date? (see below photos).

 

Yes, this is a watchmaker's mark. Looks like it was last serviced in 1980, so probably due for another one by now! The "MWF" on the buckle must be a maker's mark, but I don't have any information on these buckles.

 

Certainly very lovely. Congrats sir!

And great information and article John

 

I should just mention that I can take no credit whatsoever for the article, which was very well written and researched by Andrew Romaine, and is hosted by Desmond on his superb Constellation Blog.