Why do people dismiss all vintage watches as non-water resistant

mseamaster · Jul 22, 2024

I just got a box from a vintage King Seiko(made a thread about it to get more info and to verify it). What shocked me was the manual - stating the watch is waterproof(even talking about using it in seawater). I know they changed it to water resistant after 1970 since it's not waterproof as in diving. But based on the manual it sounds like it should handle hands washing(no soap) and rain just fine.

Assuming you change the seals and test the water resistance why would it still be non-water resistant? I've got a lot of vintage Seikos so far and everyone said it, lots of times - "even though the seals, etc. have been changed, the watch is not water resistant".

p4ul · Jul 22, 2024

I jumped in the shower wearing this without thinking, would I do it again…not if I can help it. No harm done, but why would I risk it? It is water proof/resistant right up until it isn’t.

Archer · Jul 22, 2024

I service a lot of vintage watches to put it mildly, and if the watch had decent water resistance when it was made, and the sealing surfaces are in good shape, once you replace the seals they are usually fine.

I would say 90% of the vintage watches I service, pass pressure testing just fine.

Gav1967 · Jul 22, 2024

mseamaster
Assuming you change the seals and test the water resistance why would it still be non-water resistant?

As far as I'm concerned as long as you have done this then the watch is as water-resistant as the test demonstrates.
I guess people get nervous around vintage and the fact that surfaces that are supposed to seal against each other can become pitted, mishapen and damaged by the ravages of time and this could then allow moisture to get by the seal. The pressure test undertaken by a competent watchmaker should prove airtightness for an agreed period and you should be able to wear with confidence

mseamaster · Jul 22, 2024

p4ul
I jumped in the shower wearing this without thinking, would I do it again…not if I can help it. No harm done, but why would I risk it? It is water proof/resistant right up until it isn’t.

Hm, Rolexes are known for toughness... but water vapor is evil. Even for divers afaik. I wouldn't ever use my watches in hot water. Can't risk that nasty vapor getting inside. Ditto for soap/shower gel/shampoo ruining the seals.

Archer
I service a lot of vintage watches to put it mildly, and if the watch had decent water resistance when it was made, and the sealing surfaces are in good shape, once you replace the seals they are usually fine.

I would say 90% of the vintage watches I service, pass pressure testing just fine.

My worry is mostly about sweat and rain. So far, I am planning on keeping one Seiko 56KS auto I got around after servicing it and changing the seals, basically to wear in bad weather.

But no swimming, showers, etc. at most maybe an occasional quick hand washing with cold water. And only with that specific watch(just in case you wonder, I have a replacement dial+movement 😁).

As for Omegas, I wouldn't. Can't find bargain ones or replacement movements. Plus I don't trust non-screw casebacks.

Gav1967 · Jul 22, 2024

mseamaster
Hm, Rolexes are known for toughness... but water vapor is evil. Even for divers afaik. I wouldn't ever use my watches in hot water. Can't risk that nasty vapor getting inside. Ditto for soap/shower gel/shampoo ruining the seals.

My worry is mostly about sweat and rain. So far, I am planning on keeping one Seiko 56KS auto I got around after servicing it and changing the seals, basically to wear in bad weather.

But no swimming, showers, etc. at most maybe an occasional quick hand washing with cold water. And only with that specific watch(just in case you wonder, I have a replacement dial+movement 😁).

As for Omegas, I wouldn't. Can't find bargain ones or replacement movements. Plus I don't trust non-screw casebacks.

I assumed from the OP that you wanted some factual information to give you a little more confidence or back up your opinion but it would seem that whatever you are told that your worries and insecurities will override it anyway. That's fine we're all a bit OCD about certain things but no point discussing too much further. Good luck and good health 😀

BlackTalon · Jul 22, 2024

I'm trying my best to understand... So a water molecule in a gaseous phase is smaller than a water molecule in a liquid phase?

I think I need to file a complaint with quite a few textbook publishers and a few college professors.

mseamaster · Jul 22, 2024

Gav1967
I assumed from the OP that you wanted some factual information to give you a little more confidence or back up your opinion but it would seem that whatever you are told that your worries and insecurities will override it anyway. That's fine we're all a bit OCD about certain things but no point discussing too much further. Good luck and good health 😀

I did want a bit more information because I believe the prevalent opinion is that all vintage is paper. And people chimed in.

I think it means the public in general is OCD(I am not alone 😀). It's like thinking that people back in the 60-70s didn't wear watches outside when it rained.

As for vintage, there's one I would totally take outside in horrible rain and wash tap water, it's a Seiko 6159-7000. Now only, if they sold cheaper and weren't all scratched.

BlackTalon
I'm trying my best to understand... So a water molecule in a gaseous phase is smaller than a water molecule in a liquid phase?

I think I need to file a complaint with quite a few textbook publishers and a few college professors.

I've read so many articles repeating that steam will get in the watch even if it's water resistant.. but maybe it's just a common misconception.

p4ul · Jul 22, 2024

mseamaster
Hm, Rolexes are known for toughness... but water vapor is evil. Even for divers afaik. I wouldn't ever use my watches in hot water. Can't risk that nasty vapor getting inside. Ditto for soap/shower gel/shampoo ruining the seals.

I have worn this in the shower everyday (apart from the one day with the Rolex) for 5 years, still not leaking. Ipso facto, tougher than any Rolex.

BlackTalon · Jul 22, 2024

mseamaster
I've read so many articles repeating that steam will get in the watch even if it's water resistant.. but maybe it's just a common misconception.

Water vapor will flow from a higher pressure to a lower pressure. *IF* you have a seal issue with a watch than you could get moisture in the case due to vapor pressure drive -- which is invisible unlike dunking the watch in a bathtub or pool or putting it under running water.

For example, being outside in cold temperatures, and then walking into a heating building interior would result in vapor drive into the watch case until the internal pressure in the case equalizes with the building interior. So if there was a gasket/ seal issue, water molecules could enter the case. But that same watch would also get water molecules in the case if it was submerged. A bad gasket/ seal is a bad gasket/ seal -- but vapor is all around all the time versus tubs/ showers/ pools and rain storms.

Gav1967 · Jul 22, 2024

mseamaster
I did want a bit more information because I believe the prevalent opinion is that all vintage is paper. And people chimed in.

I think it means the public in general is OCD(I am not alone 😀). It's like thinking that people back in the 60-70s didn't wear watches outside when it rained.

As for vintage, there's one I would totally take outside in horrible rain and wash tap water, it's a Seiko 6159-7000. Now only, if they sold cheaper and weren't all scratched.

I've read so many articles repeating that steam will get in the watch even if it's water resistant.. but maybe it's just a common misconception.

Hopefully you now have some info and they are your watches to do with as you please ....enjoy

ErichPryde · Jul 22, 2024

Great response from BlackTalon. @mseamaster just ask yourself- what kind of pressure is steam exerting on your watch? I think you will soon realize that it isn't, and perhaps the concern is with the 100% humidity and bad seals allowing gas exchange. So, as has already been stated, a watch with bad seals will have the same issue when submerged in water.

You're onto something when you say that it is an idiotic rumor spread across the internet. I have seen it on many forums and people seem incredibly "resistant" to letting the idea go. It's fairly wild to me that people could think Steam from a shower could somehow exert enough pressure to get around good seals rated for five atmospheres of pressure. Imagine how many things would the impacted on a daily basis If this were the case!

Something to keep in mind is that it is not really to the benefit of any watch manufacturer to actually dissuade these false beliefs. If they can persuade you that you need a watch rated to 100 m of water resistance just to take a shower, they can sell you more than one watch. It also provides some CYA.

Here's an interesting table from Garmin (of all places) that goes into detail on water resistant ratings. Note that even at 1ATM of resistance, some submersion is OK for limited times.

BlackTalon
Water vapor will flow from a higher pressure to a lower pressure. *IF* you have a seal issue with a watch than you could get moisture in the case due to vapor pressure drive -- which is invisible unlike dunking the watch in a bathtub or pool or putting it under running water.

For example, being outside in cold temperatures, and then walking into a heating building interior would result in vapor drive into the watch case until the internal pressure in the case equalizes with the building interior. So if there was a gasket/ seal issue, water molecules could enter the case. But that same watch would also get water molecules in the case if it was submerged. A bad gasket/ seal is a bad gasket/ seal -- but vapor is all around all the time versus tubs/ showers/ pools and rain storms.

Dan S · Jul 22, 2024

You may want to check if the o-ring can be changed in your watch crown. For many vintage Seiko's, the o-ring is held captive by a crimped washer and is not meant to be changed. The entire crown can be replaced by a modern one, of course. And there are a few watchmakers who will undertake the process to change those o-rings. Of course, this assumes that all other sealing surfaces are in good condition.

mseamaster · Jul 22, 2024

Dan S
You may want to check if the o-ring can be changed in your watch crown. For many vintage Seiko's, the o-ring is held captive by a crimped washer and is not meant to be changed. The entire crown can be replaced by a modern one, of course. And there are a few watchmakers who will undertake the process to change those o-rings. Of course, this assumes that all other sealing surfaces are in good condition.

Thanks, I will ask around about it. I would want this o-ring changed for sure. I am in the process of getting some stuff to a watchmaker soon, I will make sure to interrogate him since he seems knowledgeable about vintage Seiko.

Tbh I am still in the process of gathering watches, but I have to get to selling some of them and learning to service(on junk ones).

I don't know how to budget both watches and tools 🤔 There's always another watch you "need". It's always just "one more".

Davidt · Jul 22, 2024

It’s likelihood x impact for me that is the issue.

If a vintage watch is in good condition and properly serviced, I agree the likelihood of failure is comparable to a modern watch of similar specs.

The issue is impact.

If my modern watch fails, chances are for a few hundred quid plus a service I can get that water damaged dial etc replaced.
With a vintage watch the impact is usually much more severe. Need another mint Seamaster 300 dial? Better get saving four figures and strap yourself in for a very long wait.

Waltesefalcon · Jul 22, 2024

My old Eterna Kon Tiki 20 was made in 68, so it's probably old enough to be considered vintage. This watch is my beater; I wear it fishing, canoeing, and even swimming. It's passed its pressure test both times I've had it serviced. I'll never take it to five atms (I don't scuba dive) but I have no concerns about its water resistance.

MCC · Jul 23, 2024

Davidt
It’s likelihood x impact for me that is the issue.

If a vintage watch is in good condition and properly serviced, I agree the likelihood of failure is comparable to a modern watch of similar specs.

The issue is impact.

If my modern watch fails, chances are for a few hundred quid plus a service I can get that water damaged dial etc replaced.
With a vintage watch the impact is usually much more severe. Need another mint Seamaster 300 dial? Better get saving four figures and strap yourself in for a very long wait.

This is my logic too. It’s not that a vintage watch can’t be waterproof, it is the heartache if water gets inside. I have had vintage watches outside in appalling conditions and they have survived but I would not do it willingly. I guess living in the UK does not help .