Dear All,

I am completely new to the vintage watch world, but I have always loved watches. Lately I finally decided I would try to get a 'real' watch, and even though I had decided I didn't dare to get a vintage, I managed to be persuaded in to a vintage watch dealership in Copenhagen, right after having tried a brand new Omega Speedmaster Professionel in the Omega store in Copenhagen. I immediately had my feet swept away, by this 68' watch and even though at the time ( last thursday ) I didn't knew anything about classic speedmasters, I just got that same rush and chill as when I got my dream car a few years ago.

Now, over the weekend I have used hours and hours to read history, serial numbers, pros and cons of movements, but still need more experienced help to decide between two watches I feel I could easily end up buying.

It is either this, what seems to me, quite good 861 from 76', with box and papers being sold in Italy by private collector:
http://www.chrono24.dk/omega/speedmaster-professional-moonwatch--id5783990.htm

Or this, what looks like to me, a restore 321, being sold in Switzerland:
http://www.chrono24.dk/omega/speedmaster-professional-moonwatch--id5734408.htm

It might be a hideous question, but I think I have gotten all out of the history books I could, and need some real experienced help now. I am deeply grateful for all answers and comments, and excuse my self for any gramma mistakes.

With great thank you in advance,
Niklas Walentin
Copenhagen

 

The 321 is no good at all, replacement everything, case, dial, bezel, hands, etc. stay well clear.

 

Thanks for the quick reply Badwolf ! Can I quickly have your opinion of this other one for sale also in Switzerland ? Seems to be unrestored ..
http://www.chrono24.dk/omega/speedmaster-ref105012--id5465177.htm

 

Woh, you need to slow down and do plenty of research before rushing in, the early speedmasters value is all about condition and originality. Lock your wallet away for a bit and let the forum guide your purchase, there are plenty of experts here that will help. Watches also come up on the forum from trustworthy sellers.

The 105.012 you posted also has issues.

 

Yes, I was fearing my passion was blinding me. Thanks for the wakeup calls, Ill keep my eyes out here on the Forum as well !

 

Check out the website speedmaster 101, great place to start.

 

Big Badwolf is taking care of you

 

Indeed, what a great reception to the Forum ! I found 101.com this morning and will study hard ! But after having read a lot of other threads as well, I feel tempted to start out with a brand new Speedmaster and enjoy it while I sit back and wait to strike down on the perfect 321. It sounds like the the 321 is the movement to get when going for a vintage speedmaster ..

 

Indeed nice looking watch ! I have zero knowledge about the Seamaster but good luck hunting

 

Badwolf is right there are a lot of Frankinwatches out there. With an item like a 50 + year old watch you need to be careful specifically now that the prices are up again. Unless you want a rebuilt one to wear every day but then the originality, collectible value would be gone.

My .02

 

I have tried to use all my knowledge when I was hunting for my dream classic car, took me five years to find the right example. Back then I was also looking for spotless originality in mint conditions, and sure it took ages but I also found something I will never ever sell. I see clearly now it will be the same story with finding the right vintage speedmaster. Sure it could be nice to walk around with a restored one more often than I would expect, but I know I really want that speciel thing for some occasions. I am sure when I find it once I will use it much more than expected as well, just like my car, but still it is far, far from a daily driver.

 

dsio, you are talking right my language ! Thank you , I know exactly what you mean !

 

Hello Niklas.
Yes, I agree. This is a fantastic resource if you are keen to learn about vintage Omega Speedmasters. I am also new to this forum and have found Speedmaster101 very helpful. The author is a well respected member of this forum.

Go through the assessment guide section on the different references, 'Why we don't want service parts-a quick guide for the newcomer' and also study the article on 'base 500 bezels'. Badwolf correctly advised you that the 105.012 "also has issues". If you study this resource along with using the search icon at the top of this page to find similar threads, you may find that you will soon be able to spot "the issues" yourself.

Have a look also at the Speedmaster101 'price chart' section and be sure to read the explanatory notes at the bottom. Compare it to Chrono24 and ebay prices.

I must just add that, for me, owning a 321 Speedmaster is something of an expensive labour of love. I've had to save up the ££££$$$ to get my own 105.012 serviced. I won't be able to do that too often and am seriously considering changing to a more affordable, later 861 movement watch that I won't have to worry over so much.

There's an interesting section on Speedmaster101 'Why buy a 145.022?'. Grab a beer, give it a read and take it steady. You'll be far more likely to end up with a good watch that you are happy with.

 

I wear one of my 105.012-66 CB's just about daily, with my 2011 speedy and 145.022-69 in the rotation. The vintage ones have some nicks on the case that are consistent with being ~50 years old. If they pick up a nick here and there, it's no big deal. I bought the 2011 watch new so it started out life nick free. I have a watchmaker here in Philly who used to do warranty work for Omega before they stopped using the independents for Omega service. He services the 321's for the same rate as 861's and 1861's. I see no reason not to wear the 321's. They are the robust movements first tested by NASA. They are no more expensive to service than any of my other mechanical chronographs. I'd be patient and get to know the ins and outs of speedmasters. If you get a 321 watch at a good price and the market holds up, it should appreciate. A new one will depreciate but potentially a family heirloom. The hardest part is stopping at 1 watch.

 

If serviced...otherwise, a big reason not is parts.

 

In terms of price the "restored" 321 could be a good deal if the seller includes a baggie with all the original parts - not bloody likely. The 145.022-76 looks in great condition from a quick glance, but is on the VERY high side price wise for that example.

 

I suppose it depends where you are wearing it. I have seen members post that they would not wear a 2998 for every day use because the watch's value exceeds an acceptable risk of loss due to theft or damage. For some members that concern may kick in a bit further down the price scale.

For me, I am comfortable wearing a £2000 or £3000 watch everyday day as I could, just about, afford the loss. I am, however, starting to get a bit concerned about going to work or walking around dodgy parts of London wearing a genuine (as in non-dealer watch) mid 1960's, brown dial, 105.012. I could not afford to swallow the loss of an £6000 to £9000 (and rising) watch.

I read, every week on this forum, about how good quality, 321 pre-moon Speedmasters are becoming, relatively, valuable watches. Be Interesting to see what the 2019, '50th year since the moon landing' malarky will mean for the humble 105.012.

 

Theft? Where are you trotting about, my good man? If you dress like Superdoc, then you run the risk of getting ripped off wherever you go. Though the pecs could be a mitigating factor...
But if you dress sorta normal, I doubt whether the average crook is savvy enough to know whether you're sporting a $10,000 watch or a $100 one. Damage? Sure - dings, etc., but some seem to think that adds character. I would be more concerned about internal damage; the kind that accrues when the watch has not been properly serviced, and then you face that fun task of scrounging eBay for parts.

 

Yes you make a good point regarding internal damage M'Bob!
Having said that, there are parts of London, that I visit, where safety is an issue with or without a watch. (Which is why I now live 100 miles away, near the coast in the middle of nowhere.) Add to that the fact that I work, part time, maintaining beaches and am becoming a bit of a 'clumsy bollocks' as I get older???