Hello Omegoids,

I'm new to the vintage watch bug. it has however bitten deep.
I recently bought a lovely broken mid 60's Seamaster and had it repaired for just 30 Euros!!! after posting pictures one member believed it was a redial...he's probably right but it's so well done I don't care...Another member said just wear it and wear it hard.. Also great advice.
So last night I gambled on poor online pictures and pulled the trigger on a 1960 Seamster cosmic (Jubilee bracelet+ dial Crosshairs)for a very reasonable 98 pounds. It is also in need of repair..Which given the general state of the thing seemed fair.
Here's the question...Forum members often criticise or advise against redials and messing around with wear features, and buffing out vintage case patinas, yet often when a member shows up here considering buying a watch slightly worse for wear with tropical spots, wear damage at the edge of the dial, or even hard wear on the case backs , everybody as one says "nah, pass on it you'll find a minty one for a similar price." We can't all put the cash up front for the high end stuff features here by the true aficionados.At the lower end of the market we are trying to get these wonderful watches back up and running and USE. I'm trying to collect Omegas to wear....other brands like Zodiac, Nivada, Laco I buy to flip.

Where then is the point where you turn your back on a beat up vintage Omega even if it is priced way below the market average and the chances are a full service would still mean you'd be able to sell it for a profit if you so wished?

I think when veterans are giving out advice to newbies like me they need to consider that many of us are not into collecting to get 3 examples of mega minty rare ones in the same style, movement or colour, in a glass display rack.. We're looking for a small diverse group of quality timepieces to wear everyday and hopefully , one day, pass on to our kids. So...where exactly is the walk away point on a sub-250 dollar vintage (50's-70's)Omega Seamaster?

 

If the case is over polished and the dial has too much age/damage then that should be the walk away point, it doesn´t matter if it is a watch of $200 or $10000. By the same token If the dial or case is in particularly fine shape then that can be a starting point for a restoration.

 

Agree in principal, but for buyers with very low budgets I would prioritise the movement condition over anything else. You can use an overpolished and redialed watch as a daily wearer if those things don't bother you, but if the movement is problematic you can't even use it (and fixing it will often cost more than the total value of the watch).

My advice for low budget newbies would be to spend as much time as possible researching the models that interest you, then put in some hours to find a bargain.

 

Firstly I would like to say I am a relative newbie but I think it's a case of each to their own. The only criteria I have for buying a watch is if I love it or not enough to spend the asking price. Polished cases, redials, however well executed and movements in poor condition, I think they could end up costing you more than the watch is worth. If flipping watches to make money is the goal then a couple of decades of accumulated knowledge will stand you in good stead otherwise it's just pot luck.

 

with the exception of mega-rare watches, a redial or overly refinished case is a no-no in any price range, simply because the good ones don't need to cost more than the bad ones. with research, skill and patience you can find a lot of great watches for under $300.

 

ok to buy cheap watches for wear and enjoyment.


A seamaster that is worth say $1000 in good condition and someone rocks up and asks if a beaten up one is good value at $700 and years of experience dictates it's worth $3-400 we will always give the advice that a better condition can be bought at the price quoted.

The thing you learn with buying anything collectable over time is what to pay for all ranges of condition.

 

Here's a example of a watch offered for sale yesterday:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vtg-OMEGA...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

I considered it as a speculative purchase since

1) it comes with box + papers (though I'm not 100% certain they are correct for the watch).
2) it's a sought after model in cosmetically good condition (case-wise).

I didn't pull the trigger due to the redial and the wrong hands, even though IMO it could still be sold on for a similar or higher amount than the asking price. The fact that it is in the US also deterred me, as who knows for how long time the customs would take to handle it

The point I'm trying to make is that even though I could have used what little knowledge of Constellations I have to my advantage, I didn't as the watch wouldn't bring me any pleasure to wear and I would have to sell on a watch I know have issues. Also, having circa $700 in a watch I don't enjoy just isn't what this hobby is about for me. FWIW I did contact the seller and made him aware of the issues with the watch, hopefully the buyer will be informed.

+ 1

 

You'll find a wide variation in opinions about "acceptable condition".

I say you should buy what you will enjoy and wear, at a price you're comfortable paying as an informed consumer.

 

Hard to say the line between buying and leaving...some people will priorise the dial/case, other the movement and many both!
To me, depends of the price range and your sensibility about watches (are you a colllector, a purist, a guy who wants to wear a vintage look like brand new, etc.). When you define that, you will define the thin red line!!


A sub 250$ i priorise the movement => service may cost à lot!!

 

Buy the best watch you can, and wait until you find it. The more you're into his hobby, the more you'll regret going for sub-par pieces, and the more it will cost to replace them with top-notch pieces when you realize they're sub-par.

Don't make ANY compromises on dial and case, no matter what the price is, be just a little flexible on the hands, and be more reasonable on the movement and service history.

Buying cheap is the most expensive habit in this hobby. The sooner you get rid of it, the better off you'll be, both from a collection and financial POV.

 

You say in the quote I've included that not all people here can put up the cash for the best examples, but that's not what people here have been saying based on how you quoted the general forum wisdom.

What they are telling you is you can get a much better example with the same money spent on a lesser example. If you can afford the lesser example, then you can afford the better one - all it requires is patience.

 

First thing I look at is the case. Small marks can be removed, but dings, dents, pitting can not, so always look the case over before anything else.

Gold plated, filled or cap. Examine for wear through or splitting in gold filled or cap

Second. Look at the dial. Anything up to a point can be refinished. Some purists want original. I bought to restore, so dials got redone, but missing indexes could be hard to replace. Damage to dial from improper removal can not be fixed. Heavy or minor scratches can not be painted over if in the metal and will show through.

Third - movement. Look for mishandling or heavy handed watch makers. Damage to screw holes, surface finish scratches. Corrosion on metal parts or brass plated parts. Bridges replaced with ones from another similar model, but finish doesn't have the same aging and don't match.

Many times I have bought poor condition just for the movement parts, but now it seems anything Omega regardless of quality gets bid up and hard to find a bargain today

DON

 

I always say buy the best example you can afford, and if the best example you can afford is an over polished redial with movement issues, then you need to wait, save your money, and invest at a later date on more marketable example.

Watch the market the like a hawk, learn as much as you can, and strike when a great opportunity presents itself.

For me, case condition is really important, followed by dial condition, but it all depends on the watch. If a watch has a really good redial and sharp case, then you will be fine as long as you pay an appropriate price. If a watch has major issues (i.e. Quasimoto polished the case or Stevie Wonder did the redial) then stay away--those watches will always be dogs.

When you are new to the game, it can be easy to fall prey to impulse buying of lower end watches with apologies because they are "cheap"--they are cheap for a reason.

If you want to buy budget friendly watches to learn, I would suggest looking at some vintage Seiko as well as any ETA based Swiss watches. Buy stainless cases that are 36mm or larger, steer clear of anything smaller than 34mm for sure, and not plated cases (mainly chrome, gold plated are fine). Do your research and compare the watch that you are looking to buy with a known example that is in perfect condition.

Every time a buy a watch to have "a little work done", it always turns into a lot of work, and I kick myself...it is a very slippery slope, and only worth it on pieces with somewhat significant upside or watches with solid value.

 

vintage watch collecting is done at many different levels. There are museum quality Omega Speedmasters selling for over $10,000 that I wouldn't wear because they are too beat up. The picture in my avatar is maybe a $ 500 Omega that I wear with pride in a tuxedo.

If you buy what you like and enjoy, you may " over pay " what an experienced collector feels its "worth" but you will be happy !

 

I think for a newbie, like myself it would be a good practice to stay away from eBay and try to find someting locally, trough Craigslist or similar web sites.This way you will have chance to negotiate the price, check the condition and even try it on your wrist. Because, I have a mind set that tells me, if person got on the eBay to sell a watch, most likely it would not be underpriced whatsoever, if it is thought, I would say something probably wrong with it. Also pictures are not always give you an idea of what are you really buying.
This is what I have purchased to keep and wear every day.



These two were way underpriced - flipped them.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

Adding to this: You should buy the seller and if the watch has documented recent service and if the watch is in good condition with original dial etc. you should expect to pay a premium. Like buying a car or a house you need to factor upkeep into the cost of ownership. Do your research and validate it on this forum and you will be fine. Be careful of the hipster sites that flog cheap watches. None of these are ever serviced. If it does not have a service record or come with a warranty, I have learned to push harder on price and plan on an immediate trip to the watchmaker.

 

Where someone draws the line, is a personal choice and will vary, person to person.

For me, I'd choose quality over quantity and would rather have a small collection of good examples rather than a larger collection of redialled/over polished poor examples.

 

I have a simple way of deciding what is and isn't acceptable condition:

I think of what reaction the watch will get when I post pictures of it here. If I know people will be unanimously green with envy and call "dibs" immediately I'll seriously consider buying it. If it's in mediocre condition I usually pass unless it's needed as a donor / parts watch. After all, I have a reputation to uphold!

There have been some good posts about n00b hoarding sickness - it actually doesn't save you money to buy lesser examples, it costs you in the long run.

 

2 lessons I was taught
1. look for watches that you don't have to make excuses for
2. the dial is most important when considering whether or not to buy
and I agree with the above poster
"- it actually doesn't save you money to buy lesser examples, it costs you in the long run."

 

See what's around for the same $$$$

The Alpina was the same price as the Omega Seamaster.