Hi

It sounds the Mr O has found a new beater ... Omega forum ... he is talking about self proclaimed expert and pregnant bezel ... or something like that ... did I missed this thread ? Where people here are talking about the 2915 bezel ?
Thanks fon your help

 

Hi Vincent, Is he referring to @Spacefruit comments recently on the Wei Koh video on Revolution, not sure?
Anyway, that O chap is as mad as a hatter, to put it politely. I’m sure that there are elements of truth that get obscured by his .....ahem.....character though.

 

I've given up finding the thread, @Fost.

 

Base 1000 for everyone!

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ck-2915-2998-base-1000-bezel-e.30288/

 

@Fost saw O's new whipping boy as well...wasn't sure to what he was referring.

I do wonder about the bezels though...

 

I know he is almost burn sometime but some of his arguments are quite interesting , he seems to refer to a thread on feb 25th ... can’t find him...
Anyway not a big deal

 

I don't think we really authenticated anything here that wouldn't be correct.
He provides interesting insights but I think that on this OF comment he was full of crap. Let's look at the bezels he's talking about, he must have an interesting point

 

i do not comment on the bezel but ....

taking a drawing or a catalog picture as proof is really not a good idea, here u see why , a ed withe with base 1000 http://www.old-omegas.com/pics/catde64/p31.jpg

concentrating on one auction house seems to make more fun when you (O) have your own watches at another auction house at the same time.
he is just a troll behind a PC ... and very quiet irl.

based on the number of smilies here -> __ <- u can count the f... i give about his opinion

 

Wonderful that you guys don't care for him personally. Frankly, I don't come to watch forums to like or dislike people-only to talk about watches.
Specifically, are the bezels in question, those with the unusually shaped 6s and 9s (pregnant/tumor 6s and 9s, as Mr. O had called them), genuine Omega articles or aftermarket/fake constructs?

 

My current thinking on BASE 1000 bezels.

All bezels should be viewed and valued as reproduction unless provenance and history are strongly in favor of the watch being genuine and unchanged since new.

And by value I feel the repro bezels, often refered to as "German Bezels" sell for $1500 to $5000. (The marketing of them is a whole new can of worms).

What I know is that there are at least two different bezel styles I have seen on watches I think might be original. The variations suggest that the original manufacturing techniques may leave room for variation.

Modern techniques will produce a different result to a bezel made using the original techniques. But a bezel using original techniques has the potential to be indistinguishable.

That said there are a few Anoraks who given genuine original examples to photograph and enlarge will be able to call out the fakes from the original. Unfortunately, we none of us have enough source material for the original bezels to make those benchmark tests.

Using old brochures has been long ago discredited as a viable source of original specification.

Old auction photos are unreliable.

Owned watches, (such as my own) do not have a reliable enough chain of ownership that I can say for sure what is original (I know at least one of mine is a German bezel because I put it there. It took four years to buy from the man who made it and the price quadrupled).

Are 2915's really worth $400.000? Well I would sell any of mine for that in a flash, so I dont think so - but I do think the price will force a much closer look at the bezel question - closer than I have looked at myself as this remains as ever my hobby. But at $400,000 a pop someone is going to have a bit of time and money to play with to really get into this.

I have seen all this verification/value situation before, in the Gemstone market. Until a test becomes available, the reproduction and the original become worth the same - once a test is developed the original soars away in value. For example when the first synthetic ruby came known, the price of rubies plummeted to the price of synthetic. I say, became known, because like the maker of the bezels, the makers of the rubies did not tell anyone, and many were sold as natural.

In the case of Amethyst, the Chinese factories are pumping out large stones of beautiful colour - these are sold for the same price as natural because the test to prove it is more expensive than the stone. Ironically some people now want an Amythest with a flaw inside, as the fake ones dont have flaws.

Back to bezels. As soon as we have a test, we will have value. Mr Orchi, who is a wonderful maverick much needed by the world, is not always right, but he does ask the questions and make everyone think. He may not be the one currently on the money with bezel identification, but he certainly is inspiring all of us to look closer, and perhaps come to a solution.

 

And the 400k 2915 had a dial that had been re-lumed. Are they worth 400k? Go out and try to find a nice one for sale. How many Speedmaster collectors with disposable income would LOVE to own one? The demand is tremendous while supply is nearly zed. Do the math. There is no way to calculate the value without using auction outcomes. At least 2 buyers thought that piece was worth 400k.

 

have u been there to check the watch or do you just repeat things u read on the the web ?

compare the hirstorically importance and numbers produced of 2915 and any daytona and then u will know that 2915 is still undervalued

 

Have I been where to check which watch? And maybe I wasn't clear, but I was also noting that the 2915-1's values are going to continue to climb. You seem to agree, so I'm not sure I understand the snide comment. If you're looking for someone to bicker with, it's not me. There must be a language barrier here. No need for ugliness.

 

"Undervalued" mm. Thats an interesting term, when referring to any luxury item bought with disposable income.

Once we start talking $400,000 for a speedmaster, we have to wonder who is buying it, and what their choices are as where to spend $400,000 are. And why they think $400,000 is worth so little that they would rather have a worn out watch.

We are in interesting financial times. Wealth seems to be concentrated in the few, and as the rise of luxury auctions shows, there is more and more wealth being allocated to meaningless luxuries while people continue to starve. and great amounts of wealth are directed through military spending that can seem as if the sole aim is to increase the number of people that are unable to feed themselves.

I am not trying to be political, I am saying that there surely will come a time when the balance tips. There is SO much money in so few hands, that those hands can spend it on things like this - imagine what those $400,000 could do even to my local school. (Again not saying they should give the money to the school, its just that the watch is valued higher than giving to the school).

Its not just watches, its happening everywhere. People with more money than they need to feed and clothe themselves, are rushing to convert the fiat currency into (almost) anything else. If you want to know what the truly rich feel about money, watch how fast they spend it converting it into real objects - Art, property, gems, watches,.

There is a lack of balance in what things are valued at - and I think that seeing this Speedmaster sell for this price is but one indication that the tipping point approaches. We talk of a bubble, but I think it is more of a global financial re-arrangement in the coming. As I have said before, I have no idea what the changes will be, but when they come, they will be fast and cataclysmic.

 

Or the Daytona is over-valued.

 

i totally agree with you, with all this money spend in auctions for whatever things like watches, paintings, gems ..... and so on ,better things for the whole planet could be realized.

 

Yuo - I'm still going to buy another watch though...

 

A splendid summary on global, social injustice chaps..... but there is always the matter of the occasional re-distribution of wealth.

I'm not starving or homeless, but I am a (relatively) poor chap and the modest value of my 105.012-65 (when eventually sold) will improve my quality of life significantly! So please feel free to pay well over my asking price!

"Cast thy bread upon the waters" ........Ye will be storing up ye 'brownie points' in heaven chaps!

 

Can anyone think of an instance when there was a global shift from a relatively small group controlling the wealth to wealth distributed to the masses? It's happened to a country here and there, yes, but it has never happened globally to my knowledge. And even in those countries that tried Marxism, the wealth still ended up in the hands of the few in power. Humans may not be capable of anything else. I hope I'm wrong.