Hi Guys

I'm still rather new to this, but I'm enjoying and learning a lot thanks to all of you

In my search for the "right" Speed MkII with a Racing dial, and throughout my discoveries of I am facing a dilemma though...

On the one hand, what we like in vintage watches is originality, especially on the dial: It is the "face" of a timepiece and has to show its true personality.

On the other hand, well, let's face it, some of them have aged better than others, with some of the tritium falling off the markers for instance, or some other artefacts of time.

Sometimes I have the feeling that the "it hasa nice patina" expression is used as a band-aid to hide poor condition. In which case, well, frankly, I don't mind a touch-up, or a few interventions that will give a bit more "pattern" and "structure" (couldn't find a proper translation for "relief" from French, sorry!). But it seems to be a big no-no here.

I am also a vintage car enthusiast, and as much as I like to use original parts, I don't mind "upgrading" it to modern parts when needed - without getting into resto-mod territory, of course, which is a completely different ball game (and I don't mind a nice resto-mod either!)

In your opinion - When is a lot of patina and originality "too much"? What are the criteria to look for to see if this is taking it too far?

Paul

 

Maybe not an answer to your question but - personally I draw the line where and when someone asks a premium price for a watch because it has patina.

I do have a watch that has too much patina and which would be a good candidate for a total (and guilt free) overhaul with new parts. The nicest thing that can be said about it is that the case is wonderful - no big dings and from what I can see no polishing done. I bought it from the original owner and obviously he almost loved it to death. He did not get a premium price...

On the other hand I do have a lot of watches that look pretty - and a Rolex in this exterior state would be kind of fun to use as it is. My plan for the watch right now is just to get the movement serviced, put it on a distressed leather strap and go "Brando" with it.

 

Personally I would only buy the watch if I liked it 'as is' meaning that if I thought the dial needed touching up or relumed or something like that I wouldn't buy it in the first place.I wouldn't buy a white dialed watch that has turned blotchy yellow, it just looks a mess to me, others don't mind at all. I might make an exception and buy something that was very rare, but even then I would leave it as is and hope to upgrade it later for a nicer example. As with all things aesthetic, each to their own. I don't mind the dinks and the scratches, they are part of the watches history. One of the problems with reluming the hands etc for example, is it that they might not match the lume on the dial, which spoils the overall look of the watch for me. That said, I know there are some artisans out there who are so good you could barely tell it has been done.

 

Too much subjectivity involved for your questions to be answered specifically. Some people like dials that have been strongly affected by chemical reactions and time, while others prefer nearly pristine dials with only nicely aged lume.

Forced to come up with an answer, I'd suggest thinking of the word "degrade", and distinguishing between signs of age and obvious degradation.

In any case, you are correct that among sellers the term "patina" is being widely abused, as if all signs of age are somehow positive.

 

Really depends who you ask. I would suspect 90% of even vintage collectors would toss this one in the ocean.
But, I kinda like it! Patina has been discussed in numerous posts in the past and ultimately it is an aesthetic decision. I think yours looks just fine as is.

 

IMHO, there is a fine line between desirable "patina" and undesirable "damage". Trouble is that nobody knows where the line is as it's pretty much down to an individual's preference. I've seen watches (not here) that to me look pretty fubar that are described as beautifully patinated. As a basic rule of thumb, if you're the owner or seller, it'll be "patina"

You pays your money, you makes your choice.

 

When is patina too much? That's easy to answer: when you can no longer read the dial.

 

Depending on your personal preference only!

 

Strictly a preference. I do agree with styggpyggeno1, I wouldn't pay more for a watch because it has patina on the dial.

Here is a recent thread with some incredible pieces with tons of character due to patina.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/pat...s-that-have-aged-patina-and-look-great.37344/

 

All, thanks for chiming in and educating me.

This is helpful, as I'm really confused by the things I can see for sale online. Maybe it's because I'm rather new to this, but I'm really struggling with the "patina" thing.

Trit' that is yellowing a bit, homegeneously across hands and markers, I like.

Piqued dials, spiderwebs, I'm not too fan of - I do have an old Swiss chrono from my grandad that is piqued like crazy, and I love it, but only because it's a family property!

Tropical dials, I am wondering still whether this is something that grows on you as you get a bit more acquainted with vintage timepiece, like fine wines... It hasn't grown on me yet. But because these command such a premium, it's hard to part out what is the "inner" attraction of these, vs. that driven by peer pressure and desire to show off (which, let's be honest, is a big part of watch-owning and watch-displaying).

But when I see tritium that has fallen off hands, now with a "hole", and ha not been replaced, I'm really not getting it. Then again, all part of the learning curve I guess!

Thanks,
Paul

 

Complete and utter personal preference and you'll get a wide range of answers.

I generally prefer dials to be in good, aged, original condition.

However, going completely against that, I'm also on the lookout for a Speedmaster that has an almost trashed, completely illegible but original dial to give a contrast to those that have aged well.

Different collectors will draw the line in different places, but individual collectors will also draw several lines!

 

As others have stated, it all depends on your preference and whether or not you like the patina...and of course that is original and not fake.

I do think that @Tony C. hit the nail on the head with the patina vs. degrade comment. While subjective, I think it can pretty cut and dry, especially when you use 300s as a benchmark. You have the ones that look like they spent years on the seafloor and whose markers are black/green and clearly degraded, and you have those whose lume is somewhere on the patina spectrum.

What is the patina premium worth? Only you can decide. The key when hunting patina is understanding what is acceptable for the model--get a sense of know examples and what original patina looks like. If you find a watch that has a dial with patina that seems odd or off, chances are it is monkeyed with, but could be a gem.

Do your research and expose yourself to as many examples as possible.

In the end, if you like it, go for it, but the more degraded a dial, the more limited resale market IMO. There will always be a market for great, pleasing patina.

 

I own 2 Omegas with patina. I like the way they have aged. I certainly didn't pay a premium though. One is just a tad spotty due to moisture. The other probably the same but it is a two tone and the inner dial has gone to a crème brulee. My personal stopping point would be when I would not wear the watch. I'm not collecting, so these are strictly for me to wear.

 

It’s too much if when you look at it you don’t like it.

 

Yes, I know. I believe it was a Rolex AD which had put a price on his life. Wearing a GMT without bezel... Outrageous!

I am better connected though.

 

Like the strap he is wearing. They have beheaded people for less.

 

I don't mind - it's funny overall