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  1. Fattony Nov 9, 2017

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    Afternoon all

    I am sure that this topic has been discussed many times before when discussing military dive watches ect.

    However I had the privilege of meeting up with an ex service man this week who allowed me to purchase the Omega Seamaster 300 he had bought himself form the NAAFi in Germany (papers with watch) he then went on to tell me and in future emails write down just some of the areas he had worn this watch , below are just two paragraphs from these emails

    "I can bore you with some more background details. I joined the army just after my 15th birthday. I was one of the last ever intake, of 20 Boys Service, Apprentice Armourers. I had also volunteered for Airborne Forces, but at that time you had to be 18 to do the selection. So when I finished my initial two years, at an Army Apprentice College, I was still only 17 1/2 years old. So I was posted to Dortmund awaiting my 18th birthday. I got the pay rise, having reached 18, and by then knowing, that I was shortly headed to Aldershot, for P Company Selection. also played a part in buying the OMEGA.

    So in 1970, this watch did P Coy Selection, then in 1974 it did the Pathfinders Selection, ( The elite of the Para Brigade ) then in 1975 it did the SAS Selection. I left the Army in 1979, and Hereford, as my wife was fed up with me, never being at home. I was having a great time, all over the world. Away for months at a time. A huge divorce rate, even then. So I sadly left, and still regret it to this day. I was not finished."

    I will be doing a full piece on this gent and his watch for my web site but its a real pleasure not only so see and appreciate the watch which on its own is a show stopper but also listen to this great guy who is far more courageous than I will ever be retell just a fraction of what he and his watch have done .

    Hope you like the piece and the pics more will follow when taken properly 300 and papers.jpg naafi papers.jpg Seamaster 300.jpg


    so my question is ,is this watch less of a military watch because a soldier bought it himself than one that was issued to him ?

    I welcome your feed back
    enjoy the watch
    thanks Tony
     
  2. Dash1 Nov 9, 2017

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    Great watch with a great history. I live near Hereford and bought a similar ex SAS owned 165024 a while back.
    This is clearly a watch that has had an extensive military career and I think that history would certainly add some value (the original papers will add plenty more), however it is definitely an un-issued watch and that is what gets the military collectors really interested.
    So imvho, military watch - yes; military issued - no.
     
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  3. ConElPueblo Nov 9, 2017

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    I'm in the Army and use my watches on the job, but that doesn't give them any cred, IMO. My Speedmaster (owned from new) was with me in Afghanistan, as was my two Casios... They are just watches.

    Any additional value placed on watches based on provenance is hugely subjective and I wouldn't myself value the above posted any higher than a similar watch owned by a baker, a mechanic or a school teacher. It's a watch worn by a man who happened to be in the Army. Nothing else.

    If anyone feels otherwise, look out for my upcoming sales posts ;)
     
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  4. dennisthemenace Hey, he asked for it! Nov 9, 2017

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    My definition of a military watch is one that was made to military specifications and delivered to the military and issued to servicemen by the military. Therefore I don't consider your example as being a military watch. Are we going to consider an Invicta bought and worn by a squaddie a military watch?
     
  5. w154 Nov 9, 2017

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    I think it's simple; military must be issued, if it's not issued it's not military. The only exception would be unissued military pieces, which would have an engraved stock number but no issue number and date.
     
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  6. MaiLollo Nov 9, 2017

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    I agree with the comments above, and to quantify I wouldn't say that this provenance should add value, but it might add a cool factor that would make it sell quicker...
     
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  7. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 9, 2017

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    Purchased by the Military.
    Property of the Military.
    Issued by the Military.
    = Military.

    Anything else, Not Military
     
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  8. Fattony Nov 9, 2017

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    Thanks for the feedback guys all interesting points of view although at no point did I discuss monetary values and although I never hide the fact I am a dealer although that description sometimes seemed blurred but it would be wrong of me to comment on that.
    I still love the subject matter and to me the value of this gents history isn't financial although maybe it is I know I probably paid more for the watch than many others would because to know a small part of what something has witnessed I believe is pretty cool but I suppose a Speedy worn by Buzz Aldred should have the same value as one worn by my local Baker simple fact is that it isn't .
    cheers Tony
     
  9. watchknut New watch + Instagram + wife = dumbass Nov 9, 2017

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    For those who value provenance, the ephemera does add value, but how much, who knows...as it wasn't issued.

    My 300 with all of the mil docs is cool as shit, and highly unique, but as far as adding a ton of value like mil issued...no way.
     
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  10. ConElPueblo Nov 9, 2017

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    "Highly unique"? Can you get more unique than just "unique"?


     
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  11. Gstp Nov 9, 2017

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    And what then of the watches of WW1 when at least the officers were expected to buy their own kit, including a watch for the wrist which for the first time became truly essential as attacks and maneuvers were expected to be carried out at a given time across a large area. I my book they qualify as military even though they were private purchases. A private purchase by any military personell today, not.
     
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  12. davidswiss Nov 9, 2017

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    Great watch and great story, thanks. I agree with most of the above comments, it wasn't officially issued so not officially military.
    That wouldn't put me off much though, it's a good watch with a fantastic history.
     
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  13. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 9, 2017

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    Glad that works for you. Not so much for everyone.
     
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  14. RCAFBuster Nov 9, 2017

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    The Canadian Forces (RCAF) have regrettably reverted back to this. Aircrew Watches are now considered personal property and as such, haven't been issued since the early 90s. I love the idea of great provenance regardless if Military of not.
    Buster
     
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  15. Gstp Nov 9, 2017

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    What a friendly place this is! Your "definition" only covers "issued" watches of a certain time. Nobody would question that an officcers privately purchased light sabre from the 1800s was "military" even though they weren't issued. It is the same with the watches of the great war. They are military from a time the military did not buy and issued watches, but still relied upon them.

    So your definition is wrong or at least too narrow to be of any real interest to the field of military watches. But if it work for you it's fine.
     
  16. ConElPueblo Nov 9, 2017

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    But how about today? Issued watches are a pretty damn rare sight these days...

    Also, "light sabre" is spelled "lightsaber". Everyone who grew up watching Star Wars knows this. And they weren't around in the 1800s, the first movie didn't come out before 1977.
     
  17. cicindela Steve @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 9, 2017

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    Thank you . You appear to be in the minority here but that is OK we still welcome you.
    But if I, or others don't agree with you we are unfriendly? I am sorry but that is not the way it works. Secondly, I thought we were talking about watches, not sabres. You are free to believe what ever you wish and not worry about what others believe.
    But I will tell you that if you sell a "military watch" here that is not issued or procured by a governmental body, I will delete your post.
     
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  18. Gstp Nov 9, 2017

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    Just insert cavalry between light and sabre and be happy
     
  19. Gstp Nov 9, 2017

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    It is not that you disagree that makes you unfriendly. It's your unfriendlyness and your "I said so, so thats how it is" attitude. And there is no "we", I was referring to you. And now you are pulling ranks :D

    I'll leave this subject now as I'm sure you have the power to ban me ...or maybe it's too late already ;)
     
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  20. Fattony Nov 9, 2017

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    Lets keep it friendly fire boys personally I stand in the middle I love the provenance and personally enjoy meeting these characters whose watches do actually mean something to them and I believe more so because they chose what to wear during the missions where timing literally meant life or death and I dont exaggerate that but on a much lighter note this particular gent when he bought his Omega told me he could have bought a Rolex Submariner but has always been happy with his choice but I stress it was his choice and that watch he tells me ;

    I was a Paratrooper, and over a period of 9 years, it did a couple of hundred military parachute jumps, three Jungle Warfare Courses, a Winter Survival Course, and Active Service in Ireland, the Middle East, and Central America. Among many other things. It never failed me. I used to get it serviced regularly, but when we moved to this house, 30 years ago, ( the mortgages went mental) money was short, and the watch got locked away, and forgotten about.

    So this none military issued watch has less appeal to some people than a watch that was correctly issued but could have sat in military stores ,seen no action or maybe just been on a parade ground personally I know which I would rather have but the great thing is we all like different things

    good night gents
    Tony