What's the fascination with Gay Freres bracelets?

[Starstella]

After 30+ years collecting I'm really only now getting deeper into the vintage world of watches. I've recently added a couple Vintage Genta cased pieces in my box. Both came complete with great examples of the original Freres bracelets with Zenith branding.

Can anyone tell me if there is something more to the fascination with these than the fact that they are original from 50+ years ago? I see ridiculous asking prices for them and or watches with them command so much more money than those without. It's also worth noting it's not just exclusive to Zenith. Other brands who used the Freres bracelets seem to have similar attributes in value.

 

[Dan S]

Original bracelets, including those made by GF, for vintage watches are often quite valuable.

 

[Starstella]

Dan S

Original bracelets, including those made by GF, for vintage watches are often quite valuable.

Right, that echos my statement, but my question; is there something more about the GF bracelets specifically? There seems to be something weighted to the GF bracelets when compared to original bracelets of the same ere not specifically GF made. A friend of mine, also having a couple pieces with GF bracelets, and I were just chatting about it and in truth, neither of us understood the perceived value. (above and beyond an industry based on perceived values 😀 ).

 

[pdxleaf]

I can't answer the question but can contribute pictures. I am intrigued with the question.

My one observation is that the ladder design is unusual, although seems somewhat more fragile. One of the features we like is the unusual, or infrequently encountered. Note that this one is branded Movado.

 

[Mark020]

Basically because it is quality stuff. If I recall correctly Rolex acquired the company so that says something

 

[Starstella]

pdxleaf

I can't answer the question but can contribute pictures. I am intrigued with the question.

My one observation is that the ladder design is unusual, although seems somewhat more fragile. One of the features we like is the unusual, or infrequently encountered. Note that this one is branded Movado.

Yes, one of mine is also the ladder. I actually bought a modern Forstner ladder to wear the watch on so as not to potentially harm the original once I saw the values... obviously its asking prices and not sales, but some of the buy it nows on eBay for GF Zenith ladder bracelets are almost humorous! 😀

 

[seekingseaquest]

My understanding: bracelets weren’t as popular pre-1950s and therefore there weren’t a lot of bracelet makers from the era. If you compare quality of those that were available, GF is clearly among the best, with Montal being similar in my experience. Starting in the 1950s, brands more commonly offered their own bracelets, or partnered with a maker to offer them, such as Rolex with GF. I also think Rolex bought GF at some point as @Mark020 said.

 

[Starstella]

seekingseaquest

My understanding: bracelets weren’t as popular pre-1950s and therefore there weren’t a lot of bracelet makers from the era. If you compare quality of those that were available, GF is clearly among the best, with Montal being similar in my experience. Starting in the 1950s, brands more commonly offered their own bracelets, or partnered with a maker to offer them, such as Rolex with GF. I also think Rolex bought GF at some point as @Mark020 said.

Which would make perfect sense except many of the GF made Zenith bracelets were from the late 60s-early 70s, right?

 

[arturo7]

Brand recognition probably has something to do with it.

 

[hejsam]

Not only GF bracelets is expensive, look what Omega flat link bracelets from the 50s and 60s cost for example. Basically all vintage bracelet that belongs to expensive watches originally costs much if they are well preserved. Not that surprising to me that a good bracelet costs 1/5 or 1/4 of the whole watch, that is probably what they cost on new watches as well.

 

[Starstella]

That might be the most valid explanation...perceived value... nothing attracts a crowd, like a crowd. 😀

 

[gatorcpa]

Starstella

nothing attracts a crowd, like a crowd. 😀

gatorcpa

 

[S.H.]

Vintage steel bracelets look nice but are cheap, thin stamped metal, lots of them are thrashed by now. So it is hard to find a nice bracelet on any sport watch from more than half a century ago. It is even hard to find a nice sport watch from this era, period, because they were used as intended. I did not come across many well preserved Kontiki 20 or Certina DS for example, most are not pleasing to look at and are missing their bracelet.

 

[Tony C.]

First, to the OP: Gay Freres were typically of good quality, but the name recognition undoubtedly does add to the associated premiums on the used market.

S.H.

Vintage steel bracelets look nice but are cheap, thin stamped metal, lots of them are thrashed by now. So it is hard to find a nice bracelet on any sport watch from more than half a century ago. It is even hard to find a nice sport watch from this era, period, because they were used as intended. I did not come across many well preserved Kontiki 20 or Certina DS for example, most are not pleasing to look at and are missing their bracelet.

I'd argue with virtually every one of the above claims. Not all vintage steel bracelets were "cheap", and Gay Freres were typically of good quality. The original IWC Yacht Club was a very high-quality watch, and good examples are actually relatively easy to come by. The associated bracelets (yes, Gay Freres), were of good quality, and quite comfortable.



Note that I am not arguing that bracelets from 50 years ago are as durable as those manufactured more recently, but there were varying degrees of quality, and some were clearly better than others. This one, from the '60s, is one of the most comfortable bracelets that I have ever worn, and especially in hot weather. It has "Invicta" on the clasp, but no branding beyond that.




Finally, if you are unable to find well preserved vintage Kontiki or Certina DS, I would say that you aren't looking hard enough!

 

[Dan S]

Starstella

Right, that echos my statement, but my question; is there something more about the GF bracelets specifically? There seems to be something weighted to the GF bracelets when compared to original bracelets of the same ere not specifically GF made.

Not much, in my opinion. My point is that original branded bracelets are what is valuable, not GF. An unbranded GF bracelet is only marginally more valuable than a generic or JB Champion. But a Zenith or IWC bracelet made by GF ... valuable. And there are many non-GF branded bracelets that are extremely expensive.

And in general, the value of an original bracelet scales with the value of the watch that it matches with. Few people will pay $600 for a bracelet to go with a $500 watch.

 

[kippyk]

If you have a vintage watch and like to wear a bracelet, you need a vintage bracelet. There is no substitute in my opinion. GF was a supplier to Rolex, Heuer, Longines, Certina, Eterna, and Zenith among others. They are the Rolls Royce of vintage bracelet manufacturers.

As a bracelet fan, I now refuse to purchase vintage watches that do not come with the original bracelet. I will buy a bracelet without the watch, but not a watch without the bracelet. Watches are easier to source.

BTW, if anybody has a GF that is laying around, send me a message. I have become an active bracelet collector. An obsession that costs much less than traditional watch collecting.

 

[Starstella]

kippyk

If you have a vintage watch and like to wear a bracelet, you need a vintage bracelet. There is no substitute in my opinion. GF was a supplier to Rolex, Heuer, Longines, Certina, Eterna, and Zenith among others. They are the Rolls Royce of vintage bracelet manufacturers.

As a bracelet fan, I now refuse to purchase vintage watches that do not come with the original bracelet. I will buy a bracelet without the watch, but not a watch without the bracelet. Watches are easier to source.

BTW, if anybody has a GF that is laying around, send me a message. I have become an active bracelet collector. An obsession that costs much less than traditional watch collecting.

I might take you up on that. I have two GF made Zenith bracelets from my Defy pieces. I have no real interest in selling the watches so I'm not overly concerned with how the bracelet impacts resale. I'm new here but have 20 years of feedback on WUS and even dating back to TZ.

 

[HamDoctor]

I found this article a good read about Gay Frères bracelets:

https://italianwatchspotter.com/the-bracelet-an-essential-detail/?lang=en

They invented a lot of styles for bracelets that are pretty much industry standard, and their work was regarded as innovative & very high quality. The fact that they supplied a lot of great companies - from Patek Philippe to Rolex to IWC, and many more - and that in the end, Rolex bought the entire company to integrate them into their own empire speaks for itself, I think.

 

[Starstella]

HamDoctor

I found this article a good read about Gay Frères bracelets:

https://italianwatchspotter.com/the-bracelet-an-essential-detail/?lang=en

They invented a lot of styles for bracelets that are pretty much industry standard, and their work was regarded as innovative & very high quality. The fact that they supplied a lot of great companies - from Patek Philippe to Rolex to IWC, and many more - and that in the end, Rolex bought the entire company to integrate them into their own empire speaks for itself, I think.

Thats valid as well. I love the Forstner Ladder and it's basically a modern interpretation of the GF Ladder that came on my 1971 Defy. I mentioned it above but I bought one to wear on that actual watch rather than wear the original and risk damaging it. from 18" you can't even tell it's new.

 

[JwRosenthal]

Stainless was a very difficult material to work with, Gay Freres was skilled with it and actually made fine housewares from it prior to being known for their bracelets. As mentioned above, they were an OEM supplier to several companies- as was JB Champion (several Omega classics were JBC) and Kreisler among others.
GF invented the Oyster and Jubilee- not Rolex, they optioned them for their watches thus have become synonymous with the Rolex brand- but like many things Rolex tried to take credit for- they didn’t create it.