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What reference is the watch Sir Edmund Hillary wore on Everest?

ChrisN
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P PatrickJ
I must look into Smiths vintage watchs at some point.
The military models are sought after and expensive, although not relative to the equivalent SM300. Smiths made a lot of watches so, there are plenty out there. I've been wearing this at the Goodwood Revival as I think it's a 10 year anniversary model so, 1963. Nobody seems to dispute that Sir Edmund Hillary took a Smiths with him although that model had a higher grade movement than mine.
Everest.jpg


If you search for Smiths in thread titles, there are a few here. Here also a quick and dirty shot of an E-Type rev counter made by Smiths. They were big suppliers of gauges in the 50s-70s.
E rev.jpg


And that clock in the lower is also a Smiths and I am just starting to strip it - here the back (I know it's dirty but I have never restored this clock although it appears to have been serviced 20 or 30 years ago...). Hasn't worked for a decade or so.
Clock rear.jpg


Coincidentally, I took this out today! Enjoying this thread.

Cheers, Chris
 
pitpro
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Rolex said in the ad it reached the top.
This is not contradictory of the other saying
"accompanied"
Tenzigs family says he wore Rolex.
Stahl says "Tenzings own words to his family where that he worn this Rolex on the Mt.Everest."
 
TNTwatch
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pitpro pitpro
Rolex said in the ad it reached the top.
This is not contradictory of the other saying
"accompanied"
Accompanied the expedition is definitely not the same as reached the top. The expedition had 400 people and only two of them reached the top who did not wear the watch in the ad.
pitpro pitpro
Tenzigs family says he wore Rolex.
Stahl says "Tenzings own words to his family where that he worn this Rolex on the Mt.Everest."
It's a different Rolex, not the one that was advertised. I rest my case. 馃榾
 
pitpro
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Again, accompanied is not contradictory
vernacular to Reached the top.
(ie. accompanied to the top, reached the top)
The ad, says an "Oyster Perpetual"
Rolex went to the TOP of Everest.
You said "I don't think it happened"
It did by the preponderance of evidence.
 
TNTwatch
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pitpro pitpro
Again, accompanied is not contradictory
vernacular to Reached the top.
(ie. accompanied to the top, reached the top)
It did not accompanied to the top. It only accompanied the expedition - that's what the ad said. They changed their wording to not saying it reached the top.
pitpro pitpro
The ad, says an "Oyster Perpetual"
Rolex went to the TOP of Everest.
It did not say "an", it said specifically "The" Oyster Perpetual with the picture of the prototype Explorer. This watch did not reach the top. You can conflate everything together, but it did not happen.
pitpro pitpro
You said "I don't think it happened"
It did by the preponderance of evidence.
I don't think it happen that the watch that was advertised reached the top since it wasn't worn by those who did. All of your posted evidence proves it.

Nobody disputes that "a" Rolex reached the top of the Everest in 1953. The question was which one.
 
pitpro
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Please show me where I said a pre Explorer
Rolex went to the Summit?
I DID NOT!!
All along here I have said only that Rolex
went to the Summit that day.
And there were plenty of people in this thread doubting that.
Rolex says in the ad they went to the Summit that day,
and they did. Rolex says in the title "7 times on Everest.
finally to the Top. They were talking about Rolex watches.
This thread is discussing the reference(s) of Rolex worn on
the Expedition. I believe I am the one who provided
the documentation(link to Stahl's research) to show which
one it was. 馃榾
Tenzig's Datejust
 
dennisthemenace
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pitpro pitpro
Please show me where I said a pre Explorer
Rolex went to the Summit?
I DID NOT!!
All along here I have said only that Rolex
went to the Summit that day.
And there were plenty of people in this thread doubting that.
Rolex says in the ad they went to the Summit that day,
and they did. Rolex says in the title "7 times on Everest.
finally to the Top. They were talking about Rolex watches.
This thread is discussing the reference(s) of Rolex worn on
the Expedition. I believe I am the one who provided
the documentation(link to Stahl's research) to show which
one it was. 馃榾
Tenzig's Datejust
Actually, the question in the original post was about the watch worn by Hillary , not anyone else on the climb.
Personally I'm inclined to believe the anecdotal evidence that he revealed on his deathbed that the watch he wore at the summit was in fact a Smith's.
I'm sure we could all argue till the cows come home about this, but we're not really going to come to any definitive answer, are we?
 
pitpro
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I know how the thread started, thank you.
It evolved with the invoices and the ads, into
a pre Explorer discussion.
I also never mentioned or discussed which watch
Sir Edmund Hillary wore.
 
TNTwatch
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pitpro pitpro
Please show me where I said a pre Explorer
Rolex went to the Summit?
I DID NOT!!
All along here I have said only that Rolex
went to the Summit that day.
And there were plenty of people in this thread doubting that.
Rolex says in the ad they went to the Summit that day,
and they did. Rolex says in the title "7 times on Everest.
finally to the Top. They were talking about Rolex watches.
This thread is discussing the reference(s) of Rolex worn on
the Expedition. I believe I am the one who provided
the documentation(link to Stahl's research) to show which
one it was. 馃榾
Tenzig's Datejust
All my arguments are based on what you posted in this thread, thanks for that. 馃槈

You first posted the invoice and letter from May 20, 1953 for the watches that were supplied to the expedition. This surely can be inferred that you meant the one that reached the top was one of these. The "7 times" ad said specifically at the bottom right "The" watch that reached the top and the picture of it. Turns out your posted link to Stahl's article proves those watches officially supplied for the expedition did not reached the top and the one that did was not one of them.

Again, thanks for posting all the materials! 馃榾
 
pitpro
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TNTwatch TNTwatch
You first posted the invoice and letter from May 20, 1953 for the watches that were supplied to the expedition. This surely can be inferred that you meant the one that reached the top was one of these.

Contrary to what I actually said in my post I guess.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/wha...lary-wore-on-everest.29349/page-2#post-329181
dennisthemenace dennisthemenace
Hillary's expedition set up base camp on Everest in March 53. I don't see how an invoice from Rolex in May 53 to Expedition headquarters in London is evidence that he wore a Rolex on the climb. Most of the links posted here are from Rolex related sites, no bias there of course.

pitpro pitpro
My posting of the documents was not to show evidence that he wore a Rolex on the climb. Just that the Expedition was supplied Rolexes, by Rolex, before the climb.
Edited:
 
LarryG
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My last (dated) submission in this silly debate.

smiths-invoice-letter-to-1953-everest-expedition2.jpg


Based on the selfsame logic employed by many of the Rolex '53 Everest expedition naysayers, I guess we can safely conclude that Smiths weren't there as well.
 
TNTwatch
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LarryG LarryG
My last (dated) submission in this silly debate.

smiths-invoice-letter-to-1953-everest-expedition2.jpg


Based on the selfsame logic employed by many of the Rolex '53 Everest expedition naysayers, I guess we can safely conclude that Smiths weren't there as well.
Not sure who were the naysayers or what logic, but the Smiths in your invoice surely did not accompany the expedition, did they? 馃榿
 
pitpro
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The watch Phillip is holding in this 2011
VRF discussion I posted a link to earlier in the
thread is mine btw.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/thread/1297618845/1/Mount Everest & Rolex .........................My Quest ;-)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/post?messageid=1297629593

6098ek.jpg
 
Revo
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@pitpro

I believe this Rolex advert appeared in the The Times special "Everest" supplement.

Screen Shot 2021-08-01 at 16.00.11.png


If you look closely at it you can see that on the reverse is an advert for Smiths, who very very unhappy at Rolex claiming to have been on the summit.

Cue an exchange of letters in the British Horological Journal in September & October 1953:

Smiths-who-wore-what.jpg Full letter from R A Winter.jpg


And so Rolex have never repeated the claim made in that first advert. Suggest it and imply it, oh yes. Say it outright? No.

Maybe you could pass that on to Philipp Stahl?
 
Revo
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ChrisN ChrisN
The military models are sought after and expensive, although not relative to the equivalent SM300. Smiths made a lot of watches so, there are plenty out there.

Cheers, Chris

Not quite. Smiths made 3 military watches: the Mk X for the RAF during WW2 (circa 1944), the GS De Luxe in the mid 1950s and the "W10" from 1967-70.

There are about dozen of the first type known to exist, about 50 recorded examples of the second and we know that over 20,000 of the third type were made (how many are extant is unknown but is a lot). And, yes, I have all three.

There are also 3 (I think) prototype examples of a Mk XI. The last one sold at auction a couple of years ago for 拢15k.

ChrisN ChrisN
I've been wearing this at the Goodwood Revival as I think it's a 10 year anniversary model so, 1963. Nobody seems to dispute that Sir Edmund Hillary took a Smiths with him although that model had a higher grade movement than mine.

[...]

Cheers, Chris

Actually Hillary's watch had the same movement as your (cal. 400 "1215"). Your is a later version (c. 1963-5) with more chamfered plates but the otherwise the same. Oh, and yours is shockproofed -- so actually yours is higher grade.

More info on the Everest debate here:

https://www.outdoorjournal.com/feat...verest-in-1953-putting-a-controversy-to-rest/
 
Revo
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cvalue13 cvalue13
That鈥檚 worth a thread revival 馃憤

"Back to the top" -- as the Sherpas (probably don't) say.
 
Caliber561
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Was anything definitive found on the subject of the ck2287? It looks to be a good match, but a clearer shot of the watch would probably dispel any uncertainty.
 
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