May be I am old school. I was thought that shaking hands with someone on a deal was one's bond. When you exchange e-mails with me, agree on a price and place a deposit, to me it means we have a deal!! If someone contacts me and says I will pay you more, I am bound to complete the deal with one with whom "I shook hands". When a Man makes me an offer saying that he "will wire the funds the next day" I take him for his word. The next day I get a following e-mail: "I went to the bank to wire the money, but my bank manager has suggested I pay with PayPal as this is a large sum of money and we have not done business together. Can you email me PayPal invoice to xxxx @XX.xx I have received well over 100 international bank wires and more than that domestic wires. Never once did someone tell me that they were dissuaded by a bank employee from sending a wire. So to me the above looks like an attempt to scam me. Do you think that it is O.K. to rescind an offer you make or a commitment to buy? What do you think is the meaning of a deposit you make towards a purchase? Do you think the deposit is something you can ask to be refunded because you changed your mind? I am just trying to understand the culture of this site. I think that just as you rate a seller on this site one should be able to out the FLAKE BUYERS.
Yes, if the terms change the contract is void IMHO. If you don't like the new terms, walk away. That said, you weren't scammed and are just assuming that was the direction the buyer might be going rather than that he just might not be comfortable with bank wires having never done it, so outing him with his real email (which can be seen if you hover over it) is in poor taste IMHO.
How is this a scam ? You won't be shipping until he pays the invoice. I for one will not do any bank wire transfers. If I know the seller I will pay him via PayPal gift. No offense to OP what's the guarantee for the watch if a buyer doesnt know the seller and pays through bank transfer?
The terms have changed, and you have every right to cancel the sale from your end, but as noted outing the guy is not cool IMO, and you or the mods should edit the post to make sure his email is not showing. This seems a bit dramatic on your part. The seller hasn't backed out or even hinted at backing out based on what you have written, he just wants to change the method of payment. Nothing you write suggests a scam to me, just someone who is nervous about sending a large amount of money to a stranger, with no protection should you fail to send him a watch, or send him a brick instead, etc. Cheers, Al
The way I read it, the buyer wants to now pay with Paypal. I guess that would be no different that if you were at the store and tell the cashier you are going to use cash, but then look in your wallet to see that you do not have enough cash so you pay with a credit card/debit card instead. I think the only item of note would be that buyer would need to gift via paypal or be obligated to pay the 3% surcharge.
If one party does not like new proposed terms, you are free to walk away from the deal or re-negotiate, your option. While you could perhaps keep a deposit (I am Not a lawyer) , it would probably not be worth it in the long-term and I would caulk it up to a cost of business. I would note for readers of the thread that Igor makes it plain in his ads that he does not do paypal.
I for one would be far more comfortable to pay via paypal and pay the fees instead of paying someone I dont know by bank transfer, at least there is some protection with paypal. I've needed this once when buying an expensive watch and got a full refund from paypal when the seller didnt send the watch. If I'd paid by bank transfer I would have lost it all. I think if the buyer has paid a deposit and is still ready to pay but to pay by a different method, I'd be ok with that
For God's sake don't get the lawyers involved (speaking as one) - most of whom including me (if we were . . . .. . . . oops I nearly said honest) would say do anything to avoid getting legal, it'll only end in tears - but we'll be richer, stop calming up and try to rephrase your understanding, make a new deal if you can or walk away, you may have lost a bargain, you still have your watch
As frustrating as it may be, we are both dealers and this is just part of the business. No need to complain but accept it for what it is. Is it annoying? Sure. Anything you can do about it? not really. If I could count how many times a customer changed their mind last minute I would probably have doubled my sales lol. As much as this business drives me crazy at times, I also thank all my customers for allowing me to continue doing what I do for a hobby/living/fun/whatever you want to call it.
Maybe I'm wrong but I've always been led to believe that paypal protection only applies to transactions through e-bay.
Leaving aside the question of a scam, I think the legalities are straightforward. I understand the seller makes it clear in the sales ad that PayPal is not acceptable. His offer to sell is on specified terms. A buyer therefore cannot buy on any different terms to those offered, unless seller decides to agree a change. (So, if they agree a different price that is a change to that specific term only, and so on). A contract is only formed when buyer accepts sellers offered terms. From that point both parties have a legal obligation to perform their specified part of the bargain. Here that means buyer is obligated to meet the agreed timings and methods of payment. Nothing needs to stop the parties varying their contract by agreeing alterations, but those must be agreed by both sides. So, if seller wants to stand on the agreed terms he is perfectly entitled to. In conclusion, the buyer cannot unilaterally change the agreed payment method. If seller won't agree the change, then buyer must decide whether to complete on the agreed terms or whether to breach the agreement. If he breaches then the consequences are a whole topic in themselves, but practically the obvious remedy is for seller to treat the whole agreement as rescinded and for everyone to be released from their obligations. Whether any part of the deposit is forfeit is a highly nuanced issue, especially if the original terms said nothing specifically about it. There's no need to speculate on the possibility of a scam, as the legal analysis gives adequate options to the seller. Hope that helps.
It says a lot about you that you would choose to post this complaint on the forum. If this is your worst problem then your day is going better than most. This is not your first bump in the road on this forum and your not making friends here posting these kind of things!
Much ado about nothing in my opinion. Can you keep the deposit? sure, but I think it would be dishonest to do so because the buyer is not backing away, or in any way hurting your business. He simply wants to change payment method. So yo advertise that you don't take paypal? fine, maybe he didn't see it? maybe he thinks it's worth trying? all you have to do is say: Sorry, as you can see on my ad I don't take paypal. Perhaps you can use a third party escrow company, but most likely they will also charge a fee. People make mistakes, or re-think issues, that does not make them dishonest. You can be as lenient or understanding as you want to be, but in a case like this think if you have ever had second thoughts or wanted to secure something... To be honest, and no offense intended, the nature of this post would make me hesitate more about purchasing from you than selling to him, god forbid we ever disagreed on something! Again, absolutely no offense intended.
What is the advantage of paying by PayPal gift? I have the same wonder as sumerian: how comes this is a scam?
I would never wire money for a watch purchase unless it was Brick and mortar or a dealer I had an established relationship with. That's me. The guys bank convinced him that it was not wise to wire a large sum in this manner. Why not use one of those lawyer escrows you were touting? A business man does what needs to be done within reason to get the sale done. I've had dealers offer to send me the watch without paying and see if I like it, if not send it back, on him. Is the buyer wrong contractually? Sure, so what. Bend a little and sell watches to repeat customers.
Asking for help to resolve a situation is one thing, outing a member this soon in the game does not help your cause. Consider your situation the cost of doing business.
And, on that note, consider the advice given on this thread as a valuable costumer care lesson. Yiu could also make an exception if he covers the PayPal fee. Here's a real example: I had a 2500 camera lens for sale. Only accepting PayPal and no international shipping. I got a request from a gent in Mauritius to do an escrow transaction and ship, I called him, talked to him, discussed photography and ended up taking the risk. Next he asked for my advice on another purchase ( not from me) I gave it to him before the funds had hit my account or the lens his home since customs kept it for about a month. I have since sold.over 10.000 of equipment to him or from refferals by him. On contrast, you probably have lost more potential clients and buyers on the last couple of hours than its worth. I don't think you had any bad intention, but I do believe you lost track of the client / seller relationship, and what the role, expectation and rights both ethical and actual may be. I would add, as a last piece.of advice, delete or ask the moderators to delete this entire thread before it creates a permanent stain on your reputation.
In my opinion the buyer is just trying to protect himself by using Paypal. I also wouldn't wire money to a seller here unless they have a very good reputation and have been selling for awhile. Just work with the guy and figure out a payment method you both agree to.
Precisely what we encourage, I'd rather members wherever possible use paypal or paypal + CC especially with people they don't already know well.