What is a “true” GMT?

Paedipod · Mar 9, 2022

In the quest for my latest, I am pondering about what best represents a travel watch/GMT. I am not really interested in a world timer, or in a dual-time, having owned one of each in the past.

I have/had the Omega and Rolex versions with home/GM time set by the 24 hour hand and then local time/date by moving the 12 hour hand, with added 24 hour bezel for a third time zone.

I have had a couple of watches with independent 24 hour hand but these have never stuck with me very long….makes more sense to me the other way, and has made me pass on a handful of “nice” watches from various brands.

So the ask would be are there strong opinions from the un-converted about why the independent 24 hour hand is a better way?

And a second question, are there other players who do things like Omega/Rolex?

Lu.. · Mar 9, 2022

True GMT means the hour hand can jump and be set (GMT & minute hand remain still) when you travel from one time zone to another.

Office GMT means the GMT hand jumps only.

Lu.. · Mar 9, 2022

just saw your second question,,,,Tudor (and other higher end OEMs) have True GMT movements.

Seiko and also Hamilton and Mido just released true GMT movement for some of their new references...

Donn Chambers · Mar 9, 2022

Grand Seiko GMTs are also “true” GMTs.

Tubber · Mar 9, 2022

Donn Chambers
Grand Seiko GMTs are also “true” GMTs.

And very fine looking watches.

Donn Chambers · Mar 9, 2022

Tubber
And very fine looking watches.

Definitely, although still a little too large for my wrist. Still, not as big as the PO versions.

Mouse_at_Large · Mar 9, 2022

Anything that gives 3 time zone functionality with 4 hands. Generally one in 12 hour time and two in 24 hour time (via a 24 hour track on the dial and a moveable 24 hour bezel).

Anything that just gives 2 timezones for 4 hands is a fail IMHO.

Also, jumping/quickset hour hand adjustment is just icing on the cake, not a defining factor.

All that having been said, the whole 4 hand faffing about leaves me cold. I have a couple of 3 handed dual timers and if I ever need to know the time in a third time zone, I'll use my phone (or simple mental arithmetic).

vbrad26 · Mar 9, 2022

I'm bias now, but let me put my vote in for the Tudor GMT.
It has become my travel watch.
It is a "true" GMT. Hour hand will move while GMT and minute hands stay put and will advance date as necessary (hopefully without it getting stuck lol).
I also like that the Tudor GMT is still a dive watch. So I don;t have to worry about a water aspect (as I did with the Speedy - though I know it probably would have been fine).
Plus, I think it is the right amount of classy and rugged. Just enough polish to make it look shiny but not too much to make it look blingy.
One may argue it is not a dress watch, but I think it can play the part when it has to.
So for me, it makes the perfect travel watch. Function and form.

JetLinks · Mar 9, 2022

vbrad26
I'm bias now, but let me put my vote in for the Tudor GMT.
So for me, it makes the perfect travel watch. Function and form.

This is GREAT to hear as I just placed an order for my first Tudor (GMT) yesterday!! 😀

bombaywalla · Mar 9, 2022

Mouse_at_Large
Anything that gives 3 time zone functionality with 4 hands. Generally one in 12 hour time and two in 24 hour time (via a 24 hour track on the dial and a moveable 24 hour bezel).

Anything that just gives 2 timezones for 4 hands is a fail IMHO.

Also, jumping/quickset hour hand adjustment is just icing on the cake, not a defining factor.

All that having been said, the whole 4 hand faffing about leaves me cold. I have a couple of 3 handed dual timers and if I ever need to know the time in a third time zone, I'll use my phone (or simple mental arithmetic).

Well, you can ALWAYS get 3 time zones using a 4 hander even if there isn’t a 24 hr track on the dial by simply multiply where the hour hand is by 2.

cvalue13 · Mar 10, 2022

Paedipod
So the ask would be are there strong opinions from the un-converted about why the independent 24 hour hand is a better way?

Did someone suggest this is the better way?

The concept of “true” GMT vs “un-true” derives from whether the watch is (1) set up to treat as standard/primary the 24hr hand or instead the “local” time, and (2) requires vs merely happens to utilize a 24hr display format.

While it’s true that both watches display two time zones, a “true” GMT is “true” in the sense that it both (1) treats the 24hr hand as the primary/standard time (you set GMT time once and don’t mess with it, but meanwhile frequently move the “local” time), and (2) to display that primary/standard time requires a 24hr hand by definition (because GMT is a 24hr measurement).

An “un-true” version instead (1) treats local time as primary/standard (with the “away” time hand anticipated to be the more variable factor, having a jumping hour, etc.), and (2) it is only happenstance that the “away” time is displayed in 24hr format (used really only to clarify whether the “away” time is AM/PM). In other words, this type of watch is essentially just a dual-time watch that happens to indicate AM/PM at the “away” location by use of a 24hr display (but could have just as well done so with a 12hr presentation - plus perhaps an AM/PM indicator).

To sort of test the concept, note that 24hr pilots’ watches would properly be set with “GMT” (or another international standard time) “on the dial,” because that is the time of reference/importance, with the “local” time being displayed on the (quickly changeable) bezel.

cvalue13 · Mar 10, 2022

bombaywalla
Well, you can ALWAYS get 3 time zones using a 4 hander even if there isn’t a 24 hr track on the dial by simply multiply where the hour hand is by 2.

I must be misunderstanding your intended point, because what it seems like you’re suggesting is incorrect.

Vintage.View · Mar 10, 2022

Funny first owner story. I bought this watch from the second owner that had written down the first owners story.

At the time that this Rolex was bought in 1963 the dealer was familiar with the GMT and it's function. The first owner of my 1501 explained in short;

At the time I was researcher of the influences that where caused by the atomic explosion in Japan. Therefore I traveled back and forth from Japan and the United States. I was a lot outside and timing was important for me at that time. I needed a watch to be sturdy. When visiting the dealer they explained that Rolex was the sturdy watch to buy. Also the GMT was mentioned but I could not afford it at the time. Then the dealer advised on buying this watch. It had a ring around the dial with a 12 o'clock indication which they flipped to give me another time zone.

(therefore I still have the 12 o'clock mark at 8)

JimInOz · Mar 10, 2022

My son is in the military and works in high security facilities where all phones are banned, all smart watches are banned, all GPS watches are banned.
Any contravention of the rules would result in severe "security breach" and disciplinary penalties.

His work requires him to track local and "GMT", and if possible, a third time zone for ops in other areas.

Looking at a Mido Ocean Star GMT, however it's got a dive bezel, which is pretty useless for his needs.

Any suggestions on an equivalent within the Mido price range.

guppydriver · Mar 10, 2022

JimInOz
My son is in the military and works in high security facilities where all phones are banned, all smart watches are banned, all GPS watches are banned.
Any contravention of the rules would result in severe "security breach" and disciplinary penalties.

His work requires him to track local and "GMT", and if possible, a third time zone for ops in other areas.

Looking at a Mido Ocean Star GMT, however it's got a dive bezel, which is pretty useless for his needs.

Any suggestions on an equivalent within the Mido price range.

I would look at the Seiko Sharp Edge GMT at that price point. Not a lot of true GMT options at that Mido price range, maybe a Certina DS action.

Of course, being that your son doesn’t travel, he might be a candidate for a caller or office GMT, of which there are many options available in the Ocean Star price range. I’m a fan of both Glycine and Oris, but ended up with a true GMT after trying a few different caller GMT’s.

Donn Chambers · Mar 10, 2022

guppydriver
I would look at the Seiko Sharp Edge GMT at that price point. Not a lot of true GMT options at that Mido price range, maybe a Certina DS action.

Of course, being that your son doesn’t travel, he might be a candidate for a caller or office GMT, of which there are many options available in the Ocean Star price range. I’m a fan of both Glycine and Oris, but ended up with a true GMT after trying a few different caller GMT’s.

I believe Mido makes a GMT without a rotating bezel as well. Not sure if it uses the “true” GMT movement, though. The Seiko Presage is a great alternative, although it won’t be as accurate and the bezel doesn’t rotate.

cvalue13 · Mar 10, 2022

JimInOz
Any suggestions on an equivalent within the Mido price range.

A modern Glycine Airman 17 world timer GMT might be an option

As an added benefit, with your son being in the military, there should be no problem - in fact presumably a benefit - of a 24hr movement/dial being a direct reporting of military time. With a rotating (and locking) bezel, it very easily and clearly displays 3 time zones, all in 24hr/military format.

For a non-24hr local hand version, there are a number of color options (some easier to get than others) for the Zodiac Super Sea Wolf GMT - but for your son’s purposes I rather like the all silver/black version

cvalue13 · Mar 10, 2022

Vintage.View
(therefore I still have the 12 o'clock mark at 8)

This is a cool and interesting story, and a neat little bit of history on using the bezel in this way!

What is a “true” GMT?

Paedipod

Lu..

Lu..

Donn Chambers

Tubber

Donn Chambers

Mouse_at_Large

vbrad26

JetLinks

bombaywalla

cvalue13

cvalue13

Vintage.View

JimInOz

guppydriver

Donn Chambers

cvalue13

cvalue13

Similar threads

Nodus x Raven TrailTrekker ACT White Dial True GMT

rkman11 is a true gentleman and a trusted seller

bristnj Is a true gentlemen and FANTASTIC seller!

A true gentleman and a great seller! @140dave

Rhinotrainer is a trusted buyer

flqt-9000 is a top guy and a true gentleman