What is “rare” (aka, “scarce”) in vintage Omegas?

fnzeee · May 16, 2018

tyrantlizardrex
Again, I think you're using words that do not mean what you think they mean.

What you seem to be asking is two things, and trying to make it one thing:

1) What makes a vintage watch desirable?
2) What makes a watch rare?

One does not equal the other.

And whilst finding a mass produced watch in "as new condition", you can only go as far as saying "It is rare to find <insert name and model of mass produced watch> in this condition".

Being the only glass of fresh drinking water in a sewage treatment works, does not suddenly make water rare.

Sorry for the confusion...I will attempt to refine the ask. I am looking to create a list of specific models, variants and features of vintage Omegas that are varying degrees of hard to find. I have taken the feedback on condition (polishing, original glass, etc) just to get it onto the list and out of the way. The goal is to put these types of things in a general "condition" category and focus on specific models, variants and features that are less common. However, I am also open to "It is uncommon to find <insert name and model of mass produced watch> in this condition", if it is indeed very uncommon to find one in the stated condition (because from a collector standpoint that would qualify, regardless of production numbers). I hope that clarifies adequately as I don't want to turn this into a semantic debate or talk anymore about rhetorical sewage water.

Vitezi · May 16, 2018

w154
Anyone got a proper rare Omega ?

I'm pretty sure @MSNWatch has them all.

fnzeee · May 16, 2018

w154
So let’s see some rare Omegas !

I have a couple that are close, but probably aren’t really rare for differing reasons. First would be my Connie with two-tone dial, but I’d say it’s just a common watch with an uncommon dial, rather than rare. Then there’s my [likely] prototype cased Albatross but I had to get that assembled into a watch myself so I can’t really call that “a rare Omega” either even though it’s probably the only one.

Anyone got a proper rare Omega ?

So, would you say that two-tone dials on Omegas are fairly uncommon?

tyrantlizardrex · May 16, 2018

fnzeee
I am looking to create a list of specific models, variants and features of vintage Omegas that are varying degrees of hard to find.

So you're asking those of us that have spent years working this out, to just write you a list?

Hang on, let me get you my bank details and passport number too. ::facepalm1::

fnzeee · May 16, 2018

tyrantlizardrex
So you're asking those of us that have spent years working this out, to just write you a list?

Hang on, let me get you my bank details and passport number too.

Wow. And I thought the point of these forums was to pass on expertise to help others. Not to point out the obvious, but you are free to excuse yourself from the thread...no one is forcing you to contribute. No need to pepper grumpy comments throughout a well-intentioned thread. Besides that, if your definition of scarce is merely low production numbers, then I'm not sure what proprietary information you are so concerned with guarding. Please exercise your right to not participate in this thread.

w154 · May 16, 2018

fnzeee
So, would you say that two-tone dials on Omegas are fairly uncommon?

Nope... I’m not saying that and I think you can’t say that. All I’m saying is this particular dial was uncommon on this particular Connie.

Two-tone: YES
Rare: NO

fnzeee · May 16, 2018

w154
Nope... I’m not saying that and I think you can’t say that. All I’m saying is this particular dial was uncommon on this particular Connie.

Clear.

fnzeee · May 16, 2018

jumpingsecond
...Now some watches might straddle multiple categories - pre-moon speedies/rolex 5513 subs I would say are common as well as legendary. On any given day you can find multitudes on sale online or in stores but they're also icons so they're special. The truly "rare" category for me would be the exotic- something that encompasses legendary, is special in its own right, and very difficult to find.

Thank you. I have tried to use more or less the categories you suggest as I think they work here as well as for pokemon! The example you give of the pre-moon speedies/rolex is a good one to differentiate scarcity from desirability. I think the two perspectives are equally valid, and I may not have been too clear in my OP. I am less interested here in desirability ("special", "legendary") than in scarcity. Following the speedies example, if there were one with a particular model or year or feature that was more scarce, then I would definitely add it. Does that make sense?

tyrantlizardrex · May 16, 2018

fnzeee
Wow. And I thought the point of these forums was to pass on expertise to help others. Not to point out the obvious, but you are free to excuse yourself from the thread...no one is forcing you to contribute. No need to pepper grumpy comments throughout a well-intentioned thread. Besides that, if your definition of scarce is merely low production numbers, then I'm not sure what proprietary information you are so concerned with guarding. Please exercise your right to not participate in this thread.

Wow. So epically self entitled.

Read what I wrote.

Rare, is the not the same as "hard to find in X condition".

Rare implies there weren't many to start with.

"I am looking to create a list of specific models, variants and features of vintage Omegas that are varying degrees of hard to find."

You want a list of specific models... you've seen a copy of A Journey Through Time, right? You are aware that Omega has produced watches on a huge scale for over 100 years?

Again, if you want to build a list, then you need to put some effort into researching that list - and for the umpteenth time that I will write this on this forum: Asking people to do your homework, is not research.

Rman · May 16, 2018

OK lets tone it down.

As others have said you are almost attempting the impossible here.

Omega has been in operation for over a hundred years and has produced millions of watches and hundreds of references. What is scarce and what is desirable can be subjective and hard to define.

Omega has produced some monstrosities that exist in very low numbers too. I'm trying to remember a thread where a new member thought he had the world's rarest Omega. Although I've never seen another, it was a horror of design elements and didn't get the reception he wanted. I assure you no-one is trying to find one. The Omega "Holy Grail" is another example that is pretty divisive in the community, but not readily available in great numbers.

The reason that you will see some resistance (see above) to creating this "list" is that it demystifies this rich experience of diving into the research and study that each of us do based on our individual interests.

As you spend more time here what is uncommon and truly special will become obvious to you.

Have fun. 😉

connieseamaster · May 16, 2018

Do models where you're pretty certain you're the only source of pictures count?

I have yet to see another orange and black one in 10 years of indifferent googling. Plenty of black, red, and blue ones, though. So not rare, maybe exotic?

cristos71 · May 16, 2018

connieseamaster
Do models where you're pretty certain you're the only source of pictures count?

I have yet to see another orange and black one in 10 years of indifferent googling. Plenty of black, red, and blue ones, though. So not rare, maybe exotic?

Or maybe just the wrong bezel?

Lucasssssss · May 16, 2018

How about this? Ref 166.0094. I havn't seen too many about, so perhaps could be considered as somewhat rare in this condition. But one thing is for sure; it is definitely not desirable

connieseamaster · May 16, 2018

cristos71
Or maybe just the wrong bezel?

Nah, I'm only the second owner and there the men's reference came in orange and black as well. I've also seen catalog text that reference the women's orange and black color way.

cristos71 · May 16, 2018

connieseamaster
Nah, I'm only the second owner and there the men's reference came in orange and black as well. I've also seen catalog text that reference the women's orange and black color way.

What is the reference? Do you have an image of the catalogue?

connieseamaster · May 16, 2018

cristos71
What is the reference? Do you have an image of the catalogue?

The ref is 566.007. I'm on mobile so I can't pull up my catalog pic.

cristos71 · May 16, 2018

connieseamaster
The ref is 566.007. I'm on mobile so I can't pull up my catalog pic.

Ok so the mid-sized version. I know these and I believe also the really small 120's and also the full size 166.027 were available with a burgandy dial/bezel and a green dial/bezel. I've never seen these references with a black dial/orange bezel configuration before. Which of course doesn't make it impossible, but does make it potentially interesting...

Andy K · May 16, 2018

This will either end up being a giant list of obscure oddities, or a lengthy list of vague generalities. Not sure if either is useful. And no two of us would likely agree on a single definition of rare/scarce/uncommon.

I'd suggest training yourself to disregard 99% of what is written in watch listings on eBay or elsewhere other than OF, and even here there is plenty of fluff in some listings (I'm probably guilty too). If you find a watch that piques your interest, research it here and familiarize yourself with images of good examples. Train yourself to spot redials and polished cases. What is actually rare really becomes self evident then - and what is 'rare' is not nearly as important as what is 'desirable'. Only after studying in the images and right before making a bid or offer is it then worth reading the actual text, which should always be taken with a grain of salt and usually ends up having minimal impact on whether or not I'm still interested. The photos are everything.

BenBagbag · May 16, 2018

Rare... hmmm.....

As others have said, the term "rare" is just better to avoid. I appreciate that the more senior members take a more conservative approach and use "uncommon" instead of rare as a way of indicating that a watch is not easy to find. The internet is full of hyperbole. It's nice to see some reservation used every once in a while.

connieseamaster · May 16, 2018

cristos71
Ok so the mid-sized version. I know these and I believe also the really small 120's and also the full size 166.027 were available with a burgandy dial/bezel and a green dial/bezel. I've never seen these references with a black dial/orange bezel configuration before. Which of course doesn't make it impossible, but does make it potentially interesting...

There was a smaller 120 than the 30mm version? Learn something new every day.