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What do you think Of this Speedmaster 321 145012/67?

R
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I am negotiating the purchase of this Speed 145012/67 with extract (it results sold on ottobre 1968)
What do you think?
Overall it seems well made, especially the bezel and the dial.
The logo in the center of the plexi makes me think it is later (it would need an elongated logo with wide feet) and almost certainly the chronograph buttons are not good (too clean and the upper edges seem too "rounded").
What are your opinions?
Nowadays it is increasingly difficult to find a decent 321 and especially with extract.
IMG-20250103-WA0011.webp IMG-20250103-WA0016.webp IMG-20250103-WA0012.webp IMG-20250103-WA0009.webp IMG_0276.webp IMG_0274.webp IMG_0275.webp Screenshot_2025-01-06-09-05-22-56_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.webp Screenshot_2025-01-06-09-13-34-67_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.webp
Edited:
 
Dan S
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Personally, I don't like the condition of the dial or the case.
 
Davidt
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Th lume is very patchy which isn’t hugely attractive and means you either have to live with it or relume it.

I would say that’s although it’s nice to have an original crystal and pushers, the service items are practically the same and they’re expected to be changed at revive time so these ‘issues’ don’t make a good watch bad. The lume is a bigger issue.

The price matters here.
 
R
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The seller is asking €9k, but says it's negotiable during the negotiation. I hope to reach 8k. What do you think?
 
Davidt
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So at €8k that’s 6.5k for the watch head assuming the bracelet and Endlinks are good without stretch or damage. This is around $6700 for the watch head. Too much for me.
Is it a dealer sale? Is it serviced etc?

Rather than drop feed info, it’s better to post all the details about the watch and the sale
 
R
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What other details should I indicate? I think I was precise enough. Anyway, it is a reseller with a laboratory, he claims to have overhauled it. But I am not sure considering that it is quite dirty.
 
140dave
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As others have said, I don’t love it for the money. There is one in the private sales section here, that IMO is nicer and same price range + OBO if you are set on a 145.012. No association with the seller. It does have a nodern Omega flatlink instead of the 1039 but that can be changed easily if desired. (The modern one is in demand as well)
 
R
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140dave 140dave
As others have said, I don’t love it for the money. There is one in the private sales section here, that IMO is nicer and same price range + OBO if you are set on a 145.012. No association with the seller. It does have a nodern Omega flatlink instead of the 1039 but that can be changed easily if desired. (The modern one is in demand as well)


Thanks for the heads up, unfortunately I am on another continent and the taxes would significantly increase the price.
 
lucreative
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From a newbie to vintage Speedies (I bought my first 105.012 in Oct), I think the case is too polished with the lugs losing sharpness and the dial has indices missing big chunks of lume. The bezel is really nice though. But for the $6.5k price head only, I think you can find a decent 105.012. vs this 145.012.
 
R
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lucreative lucreative
From a newbie to vintage Speedies (I bought my first 105.012 in Oct), I think the case is too polished with the lugs losing sharpness and the dial has indices missing big chunks of lume. The bezel is really nice though. But for the $6.5k price head only, I think you can find a decent 105.012. vs this 145.012.
Thanks for your contribution. Could you tell me in the photos I attached where the lugs seem too polished?
In any case in Europe 105. 012 head only at 6.5k. € are absolutely not found.
 
lucreative
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R Rioveggite67
Thanks for your contribution. Could you tell me in the photos I attached where the lugs seem too polished?
In any case in Europe 105. 012 head only at 6.5k. € are absolutely not found.
See how soft the lug edges are in the seller's pics for your example?

IMG_0281.webp


This is my 105.012 that was evaluated as an unpolished example.

image_67218177.webp
 
R
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lucreative lucreative
See how soft the lug edges are in the seller's pics for your example?

IMG_0281.webp


This is my 105.012 that was evaluated as an unpolished example.

image_67218177.webp
Thanks again for your intervention, but thinking about it it should be the opposite of what you say. We are talking about watches of 55/60 years, if they have been used during their life, the profiles, the bevels, the edges wear out. And I think it is a normal thing. In fact, if you decide to restore a watch you restore the profiles and the edges become more pronounced and sharp. Your beautiful example (my compliments) however, think about it, presents a certain contrast: very sharp lugs but a rather worn bezel (as it should be after about 70 years). PS mine is not intended to be a criticism but only a constructive reflection.


Anyway, it could be a perspective of the photo. Because in this other photo the profile of the edge seems much more alive. I will go and see it in person to realize the actual condition of the watch.

Screenshot_2025-01-06-01-09-03-48_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.webp
Edited:
 
Dan S
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With more experience, you will be able to recognize when there has been extensive polishing using a buffing wheel, which is not desirable. IMO, it is more visible from the side, where the polished facet meets the brushed facet. And the caseback obviously. The loss of the edges and profile is not due to wear, but to polishing.

The dial and hands are also unattractive, IMO.

Overall, this is not a watch that would interest me, and certainly not at that asking price.

But if you only want to hear opinions that match your preconceptions, just ignore the comments and buy the watch. There's no need to argue.
Edited:
 
R
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If I opened the thread it means that I'm interested in hearing opinions from those who are more expert than me on vintage, so I appreciate your considerations.
 
lucreative
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R Rioveggite67
Thanks again for your intervention, but thinking about it it should be the opposite of what you say. We are talking about watches of 55/60 years, if they have been used during their life, the profiles, the bevels, the edges wear out. And I think it is a normal thing. In fact, if you decide to restore a watch you restore the profiles and the edges become more pronounced and sharp. Your beautiful example (my compliments) however, think about it, presents a certain contrast: very sharp lugs but a rather worn bezel (as it should be after about 70 years). PS mine is not intended to be a criticism but only a constructive reflection.


Anyway, it could be a perspective of the photo. Because in this other photo the profile of the edge seems much more alive. I will go and see it in person to realize the actual condition of the watch.

Screenshot_2025-01-06-01-09-03-48_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.webp
The bezel gets more worn because 60 year old watches get banged around more often at the bezel. How often does someone touch the lug facets or even rubbed them down to look worn? Polishing a watch case due to scratches or after an accidental ding to the sides of the watch is the more likely scenario.
 
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