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Weigh in on this Omega Seamaster Chronometre Cal. 332 Franken?

  1. rshroff Nov 29, 2016

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    Dear Respectable Members:

    Please could you take a look at this auction listing on eBay, Item# 182367555643:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/182367555643?ul_noapp=truePurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but this piece is a franken with a host of red flags. As far as I know Omega never made a chronometer with a cal. 332 movement installed in a 2576 case.

    Also looks like the dial has the "CHRONOMETRE" script added. Also movement number on paperwork and movement do not match.

    Any weigh in would be much appreciated. Many thanks!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. novina Nov 29, 2016

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    So checked ChronoMaddox and found nothing about a chronometer caliber 332. Got a feeling you are correct. Most likely a pieced together movement. Sure others will be along soon to add more.

    Oh, here is the movement info on a 2576

    MOVEMENTS
    TYPE

    Automatic (mechanical)

    CALIBER NUMBER

    342 / 344

    OTHER

    Cal. 342
    Created in 1949, 17 jewels
    Cal. 344
    Created in 1953, 17 jewels, COSC
     
  3. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Nov 29, 2016

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    Paperwork is for movement 12360224

    [​IMG]

    Movement serial number is:

    [​IMG]

    Pretty amazing that they were able to find the COSC certificate for the watch one serial number later, but these did not mention the specific caliber number. Then add in the correct box and leather pad and it's an impressive package.

    Impressive, but incorrect.
    gatorcpa
     
    wsfarrell likes this.
  4. rshroff Nov 30, 2016

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    Many thanks for the movement info on a 2576.

    I did message the seller to let him know that the watch is a "put together", completely altered, and he is subsequently passing it off as something it is not. Told him the watch was a franken and that he should remove the listing before some unsusecpoting buyer purchases it for a hefty sum. This was his reply back!:(

    Franken.jpg
     
  5. S.Song Nov 30, 2016

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    you are a FRANKIN :taunt:
     
  6. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 30, 2016

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    Hi everyone...

    I would suggest holding off on the entire Franken, comments..

    The papers note. 28.10 mm movement , that. 34x , sn is one digit off.... The case is for a 34x caliber movement, movements marked w a 332 which is a 30.10 mm movement and to the best of my knowledge would not fit in this case .

    It could be legit .....I as just waking up...would need to drink a cup or two of death wish can check some other notes ....

    But I think it's a nice watch...

    Good Hunting...

    In other words, I would spend my money on this watch .... How much is another story.

    Bill
     
  7. Wongo Nov 30, 2016

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    File in a eBay complaint about misleading selling about the paper and actually movement number.
     
  8. mac_omega Nov 30, 2016

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    See how the word "Automatic" almost touches "Chronometre" on the right side end - this dials has never left the factory like this!
     
    felsby likes this.
  9. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Nov 30, 2016

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    Who pray tell are these so-called top vintage omega collectors?
     
  10. mac_omega Nov 30, 2016

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    Ronny, so you are blocked now - what a pain for you!
     
  11. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Nov 30, 2016

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    I remember from reading Bill's presentation on Watchprosite from years ago that a lot of these early gold cased watches had dual case reference numbers on the caseback. The matchup with the ref. 2576 would be the ref. 2518.

    http://naligazone.com/index.php/data-watch/omega/13-watch/omega/302

    You can see another example of that here:

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-seamaster-ck-2518-with-343-rg-movement.2405/

    Here is information on the entire cal. 3XX series of Omega bumper automatic movements:

    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?11&ranfft&&2uswk&Omega_343

    The movement in the watch certainly looks like a 28.1mm cal. 34X, which would match the description in the paperwork, not the 30,1mm cal. 332.

    Would a bridge from a cal. 332 fit a cal. 343? I really don't know the answer to this, but if the part would fit, that would be the most plausible explanation for this package.

    Can't comment on the dial. There were a lot of odd dial configurations on the early Omega chronometers.

    I have heard of situations where the chronometer paperwork and the boxes were mismatched somewhere in the supply chain between Omega, its dealers and the consumer.

    Certainly an odd duck at best...
    gatorcpa
     
  12. Willem023 Nov 30, 2016

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    That is what I like the most of OF: before getting on one's high horse (pardon me the expression, that might be wrongly used), it might be much wiser to do real (as in 'real') research into the subject at hand. So ask over here first.
    Very glad to have @Bill Sohne and @gatorcpa on board.....

    My 2Ksh
    W
     
    MPWATCH likes this.
  13. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 30, 2016

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    Hi guys


    Here is something I wrote up years ago about 352 Seamaster chronometers

    http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf.forumpost/fi-677/ti-516451/pi-3123906/

    Look your mileage may vary .....

    First and foremost I never saw this watch until this am and I don't know who the seller is ..

    Eric and Michael are also advanced collectors ....and everyone has an opinion

    I have paperwork for a 30.10 cent and has more of a discription of the movement like 28.10 RA PC JUB ...
    "
    Don't remember seeing papers stating "352 , " or would it say 28.10 RA PC SC Rg ? Anyone have papers for a 352 ?

    The 1952 dates seems ok ..

    Just odd for someone to fake papers and being off a single digit .


    Good hunting

    Bill
     
  14. MPWATCH Watch Lover Nov 30, 2016

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    +1 on this....

    As a general rule of thumb, don't let yourself override that gut feeling you get within the first 15 seconds of looking at the piece. Obviously this 15 second assessment is not enough to make an educated decision, but it will force you to take a side in the argument of right or wrong. Build off of the gut feeling & use information provided to support your end choice.

    Too many unknowns / sketchy responses from seller for me...

    Happy Hunting,

    Thomas
     
    gatorcpa likes this.
  15. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Nov 30, 2016

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    Papers are shown above from the eBay listing. They just show the diameter of the movement as "28,1m/m". Since it is an Omega, I would think that the other abbreviations would already be understood by the testers.

    Below is a not so great copy of COSC paperwork for a Cal. 352 that I pulled from this forum:

    [​IMG]

    Note that it has the caliber designation in the upper left quadrant. This part was not included in the picture provided by the eBay seller, so we don't know what it says.
    gatorcpa
     
  16. Bill Sohne Bill @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 30, 2016

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    Hi

    While waiting in a dr office .... the height of the movement is 4.8 mm which is correct for a sub seconds bumper omega 28.10 movement so it should be a caliber 343 .....

    Also box is typically marked Seamaster chronometre not automatic chronometre , also the Seamaster boxes I have seen are green in color .


    Lots of stuff slightly odd .... does not make a log of sense to assemble this as such ...



    Bill